Sheffield Indexers
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hi anyone who has veiwed my frank pagden 1867 post this is a follow up chase,ellen holmes born 1869 in elham kent married my frank pagden (my rellie) in 1898 in elham kent,frank was a soldier he went to south africa,in the 1901/1911 census frank is listed as in york barracks, NO TRACE OF ELLEN his wife either near the barracks or in kent !!!,surname used is PAGDIN or PAGDEN. I RECKON SHE WENT TO AFRICA WITH FRANK AND DIED.
QUESTIONS.1 did she go with frank and died in africa 2 maybe she just stayed in africa marriage breakup 3 or is she lurking somewhere near the barracks and not listed on either census !!! OVER TO YOU MASTERMINDS , oh and as i know brian will see this THIS BLOKE IS BRILLIANT he knows why
Just a little observation - I see in 1881 there is a Frank Pagdin in Adel Reformatory - I had an ancestor who was also in the reform school and he went on to join the army. I do wonder if they find it the only option.
Mark
This is going to be difficult to say the least.
We know that Frank was a bit of a lad in his youth,the newspaper articles ,clearly show why he was at Adel Cum Eccup -Reformatory school.
The army,as suggested,had the right regime,to resolve any behaviour issue that Frank had displayed in his youth.
We also know that the Marriage you mentioned is correct,as it is in the military service records for Frank,and took place on 2/02/1898-in Elham Kent.
Some of the writing/terminlogy- on his military records is quite difficult to understand.
Franks service in South Africa was from 8th June 1900- 29th August 1902.
Interestingly on the military records page showing Franks service from 22/01/1891-9/10/1902- it shows his next of kin as - his mother Ann Pagdin- of 4 Bolsover Street Sheffield.The military record does not list any children born to the relationship.
At the moment,I have no idea as to the demise of his Wife (Ellen Holmes) and on the 1911- he is down as - single ?.
The search for a solution continues.
Kind regards Brian.
Hi - a question for BrianH - I am interested in army records and notice you have found the records for Frank Pagden. Where do you find them??
Sue
Angela,picked up on the records on find my past
I must say the records were interesting reading.
There were actually 15 articles on Frank Pagdin,with a wealth of useful detail.
I know Mark said He was unable to locate any detail from the national archives,it's odd as the Military records state they are from - TNA.
Although I think the fact the surname is frequently mistranscribed,can be an issue.
Often ticking the name variation box - on Surname can be helpful,at times.
Kind regards Brian.
I have Ancestry and there is nothing other than his death on there. I do enjoy reading the histories of the posts even if they have nothing to do with me!!!
Sue
I tried Ancestry,and the result was dismal.
I must say I am intrigued by Franks wifes -fate ?
I was suprised at how much detail was actually on the service records,and the record confirmed the date ,and place of Marriage and his spouses name.
Their is no mention of the fate of Franks wife within the available records presented on FMP.
I too enjoy viewing all posts,some are very interesting,and one can pick up on useful things.
Kind regards Brian.
This is going to be difficult to say the least.
We know that Frank was a bit of a lad in his youth,the newspaper articles ,clearly show why he was at Adel Cum Eccup -Reformatory school.
The army,as suggested,had the right regime,to resolve any behaviour issue that Frank had displayed in his youth.
We also know that the Marriage you mentioned is correct,as it is in the military service records for Frank,and took place on 2/02/1898-in Elham Kent.
Some of the writing/terminlogy- on his military records is quite difficult to understand.
Franks service in South Africa was from 8th June 1900- 29th August 1902.
Interestingly on the military records page showing Franks service from 22/01/1891-9/10/1902- it shows his next of kin as - his mother Ann Pagdin- of 4 Bolsover Street Sheffield.The military record does not list any children born to the relationship.
At the moment,I have no idea as to the demise of his Wife (Ellen Holmes) and on the 1911- he is down as - single ?.
The search for a solution continues.
Kind regards Brian.
I seeked advice from Tony regarding - Franks mother being listed as next of kin on the above detailed Military record- showing his deployment up until 9/10/1902.
Tony noticed that the Marriage detail appeared to have been added to a document that had previously listed his Mother Ann Pagdin - as next of kin.
So this would probably explain why Ellen - his wife had not been listed as his next of Kin.
Kind regards Brian .
sorry for the late reply ,work committments as brian knows, I PERSONALLY THINK THAT ELLEN DIED OVERSEAS ,i think she went to africa with frank and for SOME REASON she died there, frank contracted syphilis and she may have died of that,probably in africa. this has proved an interesting topic , i cant find an answer and the experts here seem to be agreeing with me that ELLEN died in the 3 years they were married. thanks to all concerned for the help. and brian i have joined that site you suggested
Mark
I am just sorry we couldn't come up with the desired detail.
The Syphilis issue would have been a difficult issue,and I think your assumption that she died in South Africa,looks to be highly likely.
I do hope we can all be of help,in your future posts.
Kindest regards Brian.
Hi Mark,
If she died overseas there would still be a death certificate as
a British Subject.......I believe they are kept separate to the
UK deaths.
Another thought.....
If she had indeed contacted syphilis from dear Frank she could have needed the services of one of the Mental Hospitals (i.e. Middlewood)as she could have had dementia. I dont know how fast
that would progress from when the disease was first diagnosed.
A number of years ago a friend of mine found a family member in Middlewood admitted for for just that reason.
Kindest regards.
Elaine in Ottawa.
Skype THIS IS TURNING INTO A GREAT TOPIC, i have a freind in africa and they CANNOT FIND a death for ellen but thats not to say she did not die in africa, as my freinds freind in africa does boer war research and apparently there are bodies buried in unmarked graves where the battles will have taken place, wives who followed their spouses to africa (common thing) and died would have been buried in common graves with a wooden cross which over the years would dissapear, i am very interested in the death at sea though , i have traced ELLENS family upto the marriage , and after the marriage date she does not appear in any census ,so death has to be the only option !!. thanks for keeping this going
Hi there Brian,
The service record is fascinating, and revealing is it possible to e mail you as I think we could put our heads together on this one.
Cheers Roger.
Roger
This chap is interesting,to say the least.
I did struggle a bit with some of the writing,terminology,and date issues.
I have added my email address.
Kind regards Brian.
Roger
Mark now has the military records Of Frank Pagdin.
Kind regards Brian.
if you think his army record is good ,see his crime record ,he even did time for pinching his SISTERS DRESS,a right little scallywag, again thanks to brian for the news articles, TOP DOG BRIAN
Mark
Far from top Dog - on this wonderful site,or any other.
I just like to be helpful,like many of my learned friends on here.
Kindest regards Brian.
SORRY I KNOW THIS SITE IS BRILLIANT , I MEANT TOP DOG FOR THE NEWSPAPER ARTICLES
Mark
Most people would be suprised how much work goes on off the forum.
I like many others am only too happy to help when I can.
With genealogy,one never stops learning,and picking up tips,and ideas.
We can all learn so much from like minded people.
Kindest regards Brian.
Brian,
I have sent you an e-mail, if I can help in any of the termanology or dates on the records it will be pleasure as I'm understanding them a lot better than when I first started researching soldiers.
Cheers Roger.