Zoe
I share your real frustration on this,I like you have had mixed success on roots chats message forum.
That said I would still think it worthwhile posting on roots chat,there are many who use the site,who have access to some unique local recxords.
There could alos be a local family history society ,that may well come up with a fresh lead.
I wouldn't throw the towel in so to speak,but often with brickwalls,you need to take a little time out- to clear your mind.
Kindest regards Brian H.

So i dont get on the wrong track again Brian, what are the piece folio numbers for the 1911 1901 and 1891 census for the Edward Jones we think is correct (so I can print off the corrrect sheets. John

Zoe, have you got the death certificate for edwards wife Mary? Was just wondering who the informant was and what his/her occupation was. John

I haven't got mary's death was going to order that next.

Zoe

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John
Edward Jones
1891
RG12 PIECE 4594 FOLIO 73 PAGE 7

1901 RG13 PIECE 5194 FOLIO 88 PAGE 16

1911 - under Edward H Jones
RG14 PIECE 34325,FOLIO RG78
RD 628 SD 1
ED12 SCHEDULE 225.
Kind regards Brian H.

Thank you Brian, still think there is something fishy about Edward. I am still wondering if the name Edward gave for his father is just to prove he is legitimate. if the family were all in Wales etc why was Edward born in Sheffield - what about if Edward's mother was not married at the time and her family sent her away to relatives etc because they wanted to disown her etc. I am sure you know what I mean. John

John
Why does Edward lie about his age at the time of marraige on 21/01/1899,he states he is 22,note his spouse is 18.
Is it just to appear closer in age to Mary Jane Jones his spouse ?.On his marriage certificate he has a middle initial (H),this crops up later on the 1911.
Your suggestion about him legitimising his status,seems a reasonable assumption.
His death in 1956 gives his age as 83,so his true age is more reflected.

Kind regards Brian H.

Zoe
I believe you suggested that there was a bit of a family story about Edward Jones,can you just cover that ,in respect of his origins.
Kind regards Brian H.

John
Look at the 1881 census piece 1554,folio 18,page 29.
This is an entry I have viewed before,that a relative of Zoes has on a public tree on Ancestry(Nigel Hughes)
The Fathers name is Henry Jones - Bricklayers labourer,mother - Hannah Jones.
I am not saying this is the right entry,but remember Edwards Middle name is (H) Henry,could the wrong name have been entered on the marriage certificate ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

Good point but I was wondering if H was the initial of Edward's surname (ie his mother's maiden name) and this could be a reason why we have not yet picked him up say in 1881. What if Miss "H" had Edward out of wedlock and later she married Edward Jones and Edward jnr then took the surname Jones. If you know what I mean. I wonder in 1881 how many people were living in Sheffield with the surname Jones. John

I was told by my Dad's sister than she thought he was an orphan or brought up in a workhouse. but wouldn't tell me why she thinks this or is just guessing.

Zoe

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The reference to HANNAH & HENRY, being Edwards parent that Nigel Hughes has in his tree, from the research I had done through Rootschat & genealogistsforum both came back that they couldn't have been his parents.?

Zoe

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Zoe
I am not saying they are his parents,but it is worth exploring all options,and even covering old ground.
Kind regards Brian H.

You are probably right Brian.

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I have put another post on rootschat as suggested,

Zoe

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I was trying to do a bit more on finding Edward Jones, and just looking at this, Sue may be right and should look at this as a possible, the Name of Corfield came up a few times, most living in the LLanwnog area which I know alot of my family are from.

Zoe

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Just to let you know at the time of posting this message nothing heard yet from Cambrian News. John

Zoe
the censu entry you mention,in 1891,is on my recent reply to John.
I know Sue mentioned it previously,but John asked me to list the census dates we had established for Edward.
As I mentioned earlier,there has to be a link in to Edwards family from other related families,and this might prove a useful lead.
Kind regards Brian H.

I was thinking about the witnesses on the marriage cert, William I was thinking could be Mary's father, and Ann being being Edwards mum,isn't Ann sometimes use as a shorter version of Hannah,
I know it has Edward has his father but down as deceased at the time of the marriage, Could there be a chance that Henry died, & Hannah remarried, and that my Edward took his name as his father.

Pobably not right, and just clutching at straws.

Zoe

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Hi John thankyou for keeping me posted.

Zoe

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Do not know if this is anything significant or it is leading on to a red herring but in Llanfyllin in Dec quarter of 1875 a William Corfield married a Sarah Jones. Could Reuben Corfield married Ellen Whittaker in 1882 have had a brother called William or could Sarah Jones be in fact Edwards mother before she married and as I said earlier the edward on the marriage certificate under father is misleading. John

Hi John,

I think you maybe right there could be a connection, or I am just hoping there is,do you think it could be a possibility, I think you are right in saying that the name as his father on the marriage cert is very misleading.

The plot thickens, I'm hoping one day I'll get the answers,

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Anything is possible, but do not jump to conclusions. Going to see if I can find Reuben Corfield on the 1881 census to see if he had a brother. I am also going to wait to see what Brian and Sue think before taking things a bit further. John

Zoe, have you access to ancestry or Find My Past? If so check out the 1871 census RG10 (1871) Piece 5618 Folio 37 page 10 Reuben Corfield has a brother called William who was 8 years older and they were living at Wolkmill, Llanfechan, Newtown - ring a bell with anything (the census of the Corfield family covers 2 pages) John

I have access to Ancestry.co.uk but don't have full access as I need to upgrade.

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email sent to you Zoe

Zoe
There is a really good cost saving way to obtain a premium Ancestry subscription.
If you wish to contact me,and I will advise accordingly.
Kind regards Brian H.

Zoe,
Brian knows all the little tricks to save you money!
I took his advice on Ancestry which I'd been paying through the nose for several years.

Regards,
Marlene

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Just sent Brian an email,

Regards

Zoe

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It may not mean anything but, Edward's eldest child was called William, could Edward have named his child after his own father? so could there be a link with Wlliam & Sarah Corfield.?

Zoe

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Brian, do you think my marriage find - that I posted yesterday - is significant to this case or is it do you think pure coincidence? need to get Expert Sue to look at this too to see what she thinks. John

John
I think there is always a danger in - making things (fit),and Jones as a surname, is obviuosly somewhat common,especially in Wales.
I do feel the answers are very much in Wales.
I like a number of othere,have spent much time on Edward Jones,and will continue like you and others to think outside the box.
I would say caution is the watch word.
I would like Zoe to explain the Corfield - suggested link,the answer could well lie in that direction.
No doubt Sue will be useful on this.
Kind regards Brian.

Going off one of John's previous replies about a possible link between a William Cofield & Sarah.
I am probably totally wrong just with Edward calling his first child William could there be any signifance. but as you so rightly said Brian maybe I am just trying to make things fit.

Zoe

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Zoe
At times we can all try to make things fit- so to speak,and as you know I am far from perfect on that issue.
Sometimes things look so right,and we ignore other negatives.
I would say rule nothing out,and be open to suggestions.
Kind regards Brian.

I have just been on the genealogistsforum, who put in touch with the Sheffield indexers, I mentioned about the possible link with the Corfields, with regard to 1891 where an Edward jones is living, there reply,

"it's unfortunate there are 2 Edward jones entries in Sheffield, the one with the Corfields is just most likely to be your man because thier address was nearer to Edward in 1901, of course it's possible that both 1891 Edward Jones' B. Sheffield are the same person!


Zoe

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Zoe
What(1891) entry referance do you have for Edward B Jones ?.
Kind regards Brian .

it wasn't Edward b Jones, the last post i meant, Edward jones. born in Sheffield.

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On the Genealogistsforum a lady has put that on the 1881 census William corfield aged 32 born Montgomeryshire, wife Sarah aged 26 born Llanfair are living in tregynon and have 2 sons Richard David age 4 born Newtown, William H age 3, so she think its unlikely that either of them are parents of Edward,

Zoe

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Zoe
Sorry,must have been having,a bit of a moment.
Kind regards Brian.

So that leaves the option then that Sarah could be an older sister of Edward (really need Sue to take a look at our findings as I said earlier it could be just pure coincidence about the marriage) John

John
I would still like to see the detail on the other near Marriage,which was in 1898,and matches with the same names.
Don't know why but it intrigues me.
Kind regards Brian.

will have to see if Zoe is prepared to part with her cash for this certificate then or if we knew which register office holds records for Newtown see if they might be able to assist us. John

John
What kind of worries me, is that the Marriage certificate is 5 years out for Edwards year of birth- compared to his age on death.
And oddly the 1901/1911 census perpetuates this.
And on the 1911,it states the marriage has lasted 13 years,yet the marriage certificate show the marriage took place in 1899.
Makes you think .
Kind regards Brian.

#97 Today, 17:44
kiterunner
Administrator Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 8,145



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Zoe, I've been reading through the Sheffield Indexers forum thread and I don't want to register on there just to post this, but perhaps you would like to post a link to this post on there or copy and paste the following so that Brian on there can stop worrying about the other possible marriage for Edward Jones and Mary Jane Jones:

GRO marriage index Jun 1898 Llanfyllin vol 11b p 357:
Davies Mary
Edwards Robert
Hughes David
Owen Jane

GRO marriage index Jun 1898 Llanfyllin vol 11b p 358:
Jones Edward
Jones Mary J
Lloyd Mary
Pryce John

GRO marriage index Jun 1898 Llanfyllin vol 11b p 359:
Edwards Margaret Ann
Evans Thomas
Jones David
Watkins Jane


North Wales BMD marriages which also shows all 4 names for a page number and you have to match the couples:
Llanfyllin Civil Marriage 1898
Reference Fyllin/14/24
Jones Edward
Hughes David
Lloyd Mary
Owen Jane

Reference Fyllin 14/25
Pryce John
Edwards Margaret A
Evans Thomas
Jones Mary J

So the above shows us that the Edward Jones and Mary Jane Jones who got married in Llanfyllin in 1898 did not marry each other - that Edward Jones married Mary Lloyd, and that Mary Jane

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Presume you mean the marriage certificate that Zoe already has that his age is out by 5 years? Yes I see your point that if the family have purchased the wrong one in the past (believing it to be correct) then thats what has thrown Zoe completely off track because she has been looking for an Edward with a father Edward all these years. It is beginning to make sense now. Just had an idea. Going to look at Newspaper Archives website for 1923 to see if there is an article relating to their 25 years of marriage. John

Zoe
I thought we would get a reponse on this issue at some stage,without spending any money.
I still think that the answer to many things will be found in Wales.
Kind regards Brian

John
As we both know year of birth anomalies are quite common.
And Zoe is firm on the fact Edward Jones, was born in Sheffield.
Zoes recent post blasts the 1898 potential - alternative marriage clean out of the water.
The 1911 states the marriage has lasted 13 years when it's really 12,and this could just be a very simple error.
Kind regards Brian.

Hi
Sorry for the lack of contribution this week-been busy with the day job-it's exam time.
I have been following the posts and have done a little searching today(day off) on some of the ideas-but not many results I'm afraid.
I found the marriage of William Corfield and Sarah Jones in Llanfyllin in 1875.
Sarah Corfield nee Jones was born in Llanfair in 1855.
I tried to search for clues from her family but there were 3 Sarah Jones in Llanfair in 1871, no ideas from that. I can't sse a connection between Sarah Jones and Edward at the moment.
I also had a look at the Corfield family. Reuben had 5 sisters (I think) and thought that one of them might have married a Jones. There is more research to be done there as Corfield is not as easy to search as you think- but better than Jones!
Will let you know if I find out anything useful.
Enjoy the lovely evening weather
Regards
Sue

Zoe
Can you explain the Corfield connection ?.
Kind regards Brian.