Zoe
1901 census
Piece 4381/Folio 119 /page 38 - Brightside Bierlow
51 Rose Hill Brightside.
Edward Jones married age 29 b 1872 - occupation mechanic - born Eston near Middlesboro
Wife Elkizabeth J Jones- age 29 b 1873- Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland.
Daughter Constance Jones- age 1 born 1900 Sheffield.
This to me causes some major issues with our assumptions ?,especially when the occupation ,and place of birth match the 1891 census entry,when Edward is with his parents at Thorncliffe Lane Ecclesfield.
Kin regards Brian H.

Edward was living in Wales in 1u901 with wife Mary Jane Jones.?

Email  

Hi
Well spotted Brian, I knew it would be a difficult search with a name like Jones!
Sorry Zoe-don't order any certificate yet, we will have to do some more searching.
On your Edward's marriage certificate his father is definately Edward isn't it?
Regards
Sue

Zoe
Your Edward Evans was,but this is the one we thought could be yours on the 1881 census,with father Edward Jones,and mother Emma.
This to me opens up a real can of worms regarding our assumptions of your potential Edward Jones.
we know your 1901/ 1911 census detail is for the right Edward Jones.
What it does mean is that the 1891/1901 Census I have found reflecting Edwards place of birth as Eston.is actually the wrong Edward.
Sues advise is spot on,don't send for the certificates.
I am afraid genealogy research can have it's pitfalls.even wioth all our good intentions.
Kind regards Brian H.

Zoe
Don't despair on this issue,if Genealogy came too easy it wouldn't be so addictive.
Can you give the exact detail you have on Edward Evans - Full Marriage certificate.
Kind regards Brian H.

Brian, is it me or have you a case of the welsh bug ie getting mixed up between Jones and Evans.

John
I have done it a few times,but managed to correct it,in time.
Maybe - Tony can oblige- and correct my mistake ?.
Seems its catching,Jones and Evans are mighty common names.
Have you any spare tablets John ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

On the marriage cert of my Edward Jones marriage to Mary Jane Jones 21st Jan 1899 he was aged 22 farm labourer as occupation, residence at time of Marriage, Bryncae Meisior Tregynon, Father's name Edward Jones (deceased at the time of marriage) occupation of father farm labourer. Witness William Jones & Ann Jones.

Mary Jane Jones Maiden name Jones, father William Jones` Stone Mason..

They married in the district of Newtown. Which I do know Mary was from.

Zoe

Email  

Zoe
Do you know what Edward Jones's - mothers name was ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

No unfortunately I don't, all i know on him is what I have posted before.

Zoe

Email  

Zoe, I have found a link to a paper called the Cambrian News which covers Portmadog etc. Since Edward Jones was buried in the cemetery (do you know exact date of death) do you want me to have a bash at contacting them to see if they have anything on his death and if not which paper to try. John

Hi John, he died 18th Jan 1956, at the general hospital in St Asaph North Wales, from what my dad tells me was called HMstanley after,I was born there. but I seemed to think they use that hospital now for rehibilitation.If you can try to find if he had an obituary for me, if thats ok, I would truly appreciate it. as have said previously he is the only missing link in my tree, no one in the family really knows that much about him or his past, except from 1901 onwards.

Zoe

Zoe

Email  

Just sent an email of enquiry, will let yo know when I hear anything. John

Thankyou so much, is it just me or is he a tricky person to find any information on.

Zoe

Email  

no its not you - he is just very elusive, I have the same problem on my tree someone being elusive - he even changed his name to something completely different and changed it back again not found him yet on 1911 census (think he was in prison though) To think you are researching someone with one of the most common surnames in the uk you are doing remarkably well. Do not give up now as someone on this forum will eventually solve your mystery. Have you any photographs of Edward or family with any writing on the back that could help you. John

Hi Zoe
I've searched and searched without much success for Edward's birth in the Sheffield area.

I did find a POSSSIBLE Edward Jones b. Sheffield 1873 in the 1891 Wales census in the Tregynon area, Newtown and Llanidloes.

Reuben Corfield 31 Farmer and Bricklayer
Ellen Corfield 30
Margaret E Corfield 8
Francis E Corfield 6
Annie Corfield 5
Reuben M Corfield 3
Martha J Corfield 2
William H Corfield 1
Isaac T Whitting 21
Edward Jones 18 Farm Servant b. Sheffield
piece 4594 folio 73 page 7

Something for you to consider.
Regards
Sue

Sue
I also thought this is likely to be the right Edward.
The problems as such are ,establishing Edward's Birth in Sheffield,and establishing his parentage.
The fluctuating year of birth,is a problem,but his death in 1956 puts his age at 83,which fits in with what Zoe said about his year of birth.
Kind regards Brian H.

I don't have a photo of edward, waiting for a photo of him from my dad, I have a photo of his wife somewhere, but I do have a photo of 2 of his children, 1st child William with his sister Mary Jane Jones she's was my grandmother. I think I have one of Edward's wife.

Email  

Zoe
Do you have a copy of the Marriage certificate ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

yes I have a copy of their marriage cert

Email  

in 1882 at Newton Reuben Corfield married helen Whittaker - just thought I would post this in case the surname of Helen rang any bells and hence why he was a servant there. If not its obviously that he got a job there.

Whittaker isn't a name I have heard of in the fsmily.
Zoe

Email  

Hi John,

Edward Jones is very elusive, I am suprised that I've managed to get anything on him. Do you think I'll ever get anymore on him or time to give up searching.I love a challenge of looking for information on my family but this search is really challenging as you all know.

Zoe

Email  

Do not give up. One marriage on another side of my tree took 16 years to solve. Hopefully the person I emailed regarding the obituaries will get back to me. do you know exactly where in Portmadog Cemetery Edward is buried? I was just wondering if you emailed it, would they be able to tell yo who purchased the plot etc You also say he died in St Asaph, do you know why he was there as surely other hospitals nearby and as you say his wife died within a week did she die at the same place? John PS was William Jones dead at the time Edward married? I am just wondering if William Jones and Edward Jones Snr could be brothers.

I have only been to his grave a few times the last time was about 7years ago he is buried in Minffordd Cemetary Porthmadog in a double grave with his wife Mary she died in 1947,
The couple that died within a week of each other was their daughter Dorothy & her Husband, died from TB.

Edward was in Prestatyn visiting his Daughter Mary Jane Jones(my Grandmother) apparently he went there every January supposely to celebrate his birthday, but I found no Edward Jones' with a Birth reg in January. his body was taken to Porthmadog after me died. I am not sure on this but I think the cemetary isn't that far from where he used to live, the Farm he had was about a 10mins walk to the little Italian village in Portmeirion. after the farm he went to live in a house called Trem Tecwyn, this is on his death cert as his last address.

Email  

Sorry forgot to put William was alive at the time of Edward's marriage.s

Email  

On the marriage certificate for Edward and Mary J Jones in 1899 does it say if Mary was a minor? Brian and Sue check out RG12 (1891) 4593, folio 125 page 28 I know it says Mary is only 8 at the time but she is living with a father William in Newtown and there are also two sibling one called William and one called Ann - could these siblings be the witnesses to the marriage? What do you think Brian and Sue? John

Zoe
Could yo email me a copy of the marriage certificate - to - hrtmart@sky.com.Kind regards Brian H.

I have just emailed Brian with a copy of Edward & Mary's birth cert.

Zoe

Email  

Hi John,

It doesn't say on the cert that Mary was a Minor

Zoe

Email  

Zoe
You can imagine just how common the (Jones) surname is,
Did Edward Jones - family always say he was born in Sheffield ?.
And also I notice a very close marraige - of a Edward Jones in the second qtr of 1898 to also - a Mary Jane Jones,in Llanfyllin Montgomeryshire.
I still find it odd that Edwards Age on his marriage certificate (21/01/1899) is down as 22,and the 1911 census states the marriage has lasted 13 years,when really it is actually 12.
I know errors occur ,but it makes you think .
Are you absolutely sure you have got the right marriage certificate ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

OK I will not get too excited. I shall wait for your superior expertise at studying the marriage cetificate and await your instructions on what we are going to look for next. John (Zoe we are going to solve this for you I am confident of this)

Hi John,

Thankyou for your positivity, I have struggled with this part of my tree since I started just over a year ago.

Zoe

Email  

John
The marraige certificate is a 2011 facsimile.
I didnt wish to sound rude,but as there is a very close marrage to this in 1898,I felt it was worth asking if Zoe was certain she had got the correct certificate ?
Edward Jones is down as - aged 22,and a farm labourer,father- Edward Jones deceased - occupation - farm labourer.
His Wife- Mary Jane Jones is down as aged 18 - spinster- fathers name William Jones - occupation Mason.
The witneses are William Jones,and Ann Jones,who I thought could be Mary Jane Jones parents ?.
Kind regards Brian H.

You are not rude Brian, you have much superior knowledge on genealogy and so do a lot of other people then me. I know it sounds expensive but I just wonder if Zoe should send for the marriage certificate of the one you found in 1898 in Wales just to see what the information says. I wonder also if it is worth her emailing the National Library of wales at Aberystwyth to see if they hold the parish record of the church at Newtown (suppose though could be more than one)to see if they could find the actual parish marriage record. John

John the 1898 marriage was in the second qtr in Llanfyllin Motgomeryshire -vol 11b ,page 358
Edward Jones - Mary Jane Jones.
I just thought that this could be of interest ?.
And regarding genealogy,I have much to learn,and one never stops picking up knowledge ,at every level.
One can always improve,by learning from ones own mistakes,it's so eay to try to make things fit.
Kind regards Brian H.

Brian,

You are not rude at all. I was certain this was the right one for a few reasons, the newtown connection, this was also the Cert that my Aunt had, and the fact that Mary's father was a stone mason, my father was told his Grandmother's father was a stone mason,

Zoe

Email  

Hi
Brian, I have thought about the 13 year marriage and found the marriage in Llanfyllin in 1898 as well.

Edward Jones Jun 1898 Llanfyllin 11b 358

I discounted it because in the 1901 census for Edward born in Sheffield, living in Llanwnog, the registration district is Newtown. I googlemapped Llanwnog and it is very near Newtown. Zoe said she was sure Mary Jane came from that area. Llanfyllin is further away from Newtown.

The mystery of Edward Jones lives on!
Regards
Sue

Still think I would therefore get the 1898 marriage certificate. It could easily be that your Aunt got the wrong one. Stone Masons would have been a very popular job in that era in that part of Wales with the building of the ffestiniogg Railyway from Porthmadog to the slate quarries at Blaneau etc . John

I was told my my father that Mary Jane came from Newtown
but he also mentioned Llandinum. I have a photo of her parents, mentions Newtown on the back & front.

Zoe

Email  

Zoe
I reckon ,you have the right certificate,having reviewed,what you have stated,and Sues comments.
I wouldn't waste any money ordering the other marriage certificate.
Kind regards Brian H.

Brian,what should I do next.

Zoe

Email  

Zoe
That is a good question ?,I can't really give you a positive suggestion,at this moment in time.
From a family history point of view,there are a number of issues which are impeding your progress.
There are many learned genealogy addicts who use this site,who might offer a suggestion.
I would think that there must be somemone on the roots chat welsh - message forum, who might have access to more local information regarding Edward Jones,and one might even establish a direct link to the family.
I would have a chat with your oldest living link to Edward, and other family members,just to see if there are any missing snippets of information,you might find useful.
Kind regards Brian H.

I would say that you need to center your research in Wales
as the guys have suggested. Work from what you know to be 100%
correct and can prove. Slowly work your way back.

Dont jump any steps especially with a name like Jones.

You know now that he certainly wasn't born in Sheffield and that his father was working in Ecclesfield. They moved around
lots judging from all the different places the children were born.

These are the Edward Jones born in the Sheffield area (five years at either side of 1873).

The first one was before 1867.

Edward Apperson 01/01/1874 48 89 Sheffield South
2 Edward Benjamin 01/01/1874 105 30 Sheffield North
3 Edward 01/01/1876 31 11 Attercliffe
4 Edward 01/01/1877 93 48 Brightside

Not many as you can see.

My Northamptonshire relies moved to Guisborough as they were Iron Stone miners and later worked in the Steel Works in the Guisborough/Middlesborough area which clicks in with what Edwards fathers occupation was.

Glad to see have been part of the solution.

Regards.

Elaine in Ottawa.

Email   Skype   Website

Zoe
We have already established Edward Jones on the 1891/1901/1911 census.
What we have proved is that the suggested - Ecclesfield - connection was wrong,as per previous - original post.
I am not passing the book,but Elaines suggestion should prove helpful.You need to make contact via Roots chat to people who have more access to welsh based local records.
This should give you a more structured approach to dealing with the geography of the area,and other issues,someone with more localised knowledge can offer.
We are certainly not turning our backs on your quest,we simply want you to make inroads in to your quest.
Kind regards Brian H,.

From the research I have done the edward in attlcliffe isn't my Edward or the EBJones, but don't know about the other 2 Elaine has mentioned. I just want everyone to know I am truly greatful with all the help you are giving me

Zoe

Email  

Just reading one of Brian's replies about asking family members for help, is only Edward's youngest Daughter she is in her 90's (which her son is asking me for help) or my Aunt (Edward's granddaughter who's 80) or my Dad 67, he was 11 when Edward died. I have tried in the pass to post on Rootschat about Edward before but to no avail, also tried Genealogistsforum,

Zoe

Email  

Zoe
I can find no link to Edward Jones in Sheffield which fit the criteria of your search.
It is very likely that if he was actually born in Sheffield the birth wasn't registered,as John Suggested previously.
Up to now,we have established Edwards whereabouts in 1891/1901/1911- on all three census it states he was born in Sheffield.
The 1881 census showing Edward in Ecclesfield -Thorncliffe Lane,proved to be wrong.
Due to the fact we could track his marraige to a totally different person,and the place of birth was- Elston near Middlesboro.
Kind regards Brian H

I do appreciate all the help you have all given me. If his birth wasn't registered then it's very unlikely that I will find anymore on him?

Zoe

Email