Ok, so we have a couple lessons learned:

1. Don't pick on a former cop's kid! He might just have some of his old man's spunk in him!

2. Make'em prove their charges. We were the first in the county to mention the problem of the lack of calibration of the radars. You heard it first on ole etater.com where we raised the question as to how a lady could have made a 90 degree turn onto Beaver Creek at 51 mph. That was dismissed "for lack of evidence." Then there was the case of the man doing 75 mph on the Scenic Highway. He got J.L. Clifton to fix the ticket for him which indicated that Clifton knew that the radars were putting out questionable results.

Then we raised the issue of whether or not the radars had ever been calibrated and if so, when? Now this young man has decided to call the cops into question about their equipment and he will win this one because they have no yet come up with the discovery (that's code for "calibration records."

A few years ago when we had the old jail I went down to the state Fire Marshall's office and asked to see the records as to when the jail had been last inspected. The answer: FOURTEEN YEARS AGO.

They had just had a young lady die in her cell due to an overdose. (Don't ask me how that happened!) The county got sued after that and finally quit the jail business.

So what do you bet that these radars have never been calibrated!!!!!!!! In fact, I wonder if JOnese has anyone including himself who could calibrate a radar. But that hasn't stopped them from giving speeding tickets. And it won't until more kids like Tim Gibb stand up and call a halt to the farce.

GOOD GOING TIMMY!!!!

This Kid's Got Guts!

i am definatly interested in seeing how this comes out. good luck , hes gonna need it whether he wins or not cuz hes still going to have to drive around the area.

Frankly, I think he has a chance with Janet. She seems to see the truth and is willing to challenge a cop's word for things (i.e. Ben Wilfong)

I wouldn't get my hopes up if anyone else gets it.

They have to have proof that their radar is reading accurately.

Here's what to ask for:

Request information (optional, it can work for you, or make them want to nail you more!) Also they may or may not give you any of this depending on local laws!:

a.Copies of manufacturers names, including makes, models and serial numbers of all radar/laser guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.

b. Copies of manufacturers recommended maintenance for all of the above stated radar guns.

c. Copies of any manufacturer literature as it relates to the correct use, including but not limited to mounting, aiming, weather and traffic limitations, for all radar guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.

d. A copy of the past six months' maintenance records for all of the above stated radar guns, including, but not limited to, calibration specifications.

e. A copy of the Authorized Certification of Training, issued to the Officer who gave you the ticket, in the proper use of all radar guns in use by that Town/City/State Police Department he/she works for.

f. A copy of the patrol car assignments for the date you got the ticket.

IT is the officers duty to prove you GUILTY. If he fails to prove your guilt the case will be dismissed.

BE confident that you will win the case!

Check the actual wording of the code you violated. If the officer fails to prove guilt in any part of the code then you should be dismissed.

BEFORE an officer can use the radar/laser reading as evidence, he has to establish a few things Jurisdiction Certification, up to date, accurate, traffic and engineering survey, radar/laser properly calibrated, tuning forks calibrated (with radar), FCC license, radar/laser unit appears on that FCC license

If the officer attempts to use the radar reading before establishing those things above, politely interrupt and say "objection your honor, inadmissible evidence."

Then tell the judge why. If the officer fails to prove your guilt at the end of his testimony don't question him, move to have the case dismissed. And explain what he failed to prove.

If the officer was moving when was his speedometer last calibrated? Have the records to see if he contradicts himself. If officer guesses your speed. throw something and ask him how fast it was going. If he is off by 3 MPH at 15 MPH speed then think about how far off he is at 35 MPH.

Were the speed limits prima facie? or Absolute? If prima facie then prove the speed you were traveling at wasn't unsafe.

ASK questions like: what color clothes was I wearing? did I have any passengers?

What was the weather like? To see how well versed the officer is.

See if you can attend traffic school in exchange for a dismissal of the charge (never bothers your insurance.)

OFTEN the worst part of a ticket is the increase in your insurance. By beating the ticket you don't have to worry about that...

i have seen this challenged in court before and the judge agreed with the cop that he is only certified to operate the device not calibrate it and IT SEEMED TO BE WORKING FINE IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER TRAFFIC THAT DAY . i wish him well and hope he wins but this is going to be a uphill battle since all the cop has to do is sit there and the young man will have to convince the judge not that the device is faulty but that he wasnt speeding in the first place. shew

Alright folks I believe Timmy has a losing battle on his hands.

First an officer does not have to identify himself for pulling you over, not for your information but their own safety. What if Jim Bob got locked up and his cousins knew the officer only by name and shot him on a routine traffic stop.

Second, Police officers are also trained in the practice of visual estimation of speed and distance, and the radar is thus used as a verification of the visual estimation. In addition, it is easy enough to testify that the vehicle in the offside lane was passing vehicles in the nearside lane, and is therefore the vehicle whose speed is showing on the readout as traveling above the posted limit.

Third, officers can ask you if you have been drinking. This is not for them to be able to write you a ticket but to be able protect the well being of you and others on the roadways.

Timmy, if you read this I feel that you should let this one go. Pay the fine, because by the time the lawyers are paid(if you choose to have a lawyer) the bill is going to be more than the ticket. Also this makes you look bad going against the sheriff's department, all you will be is a target.

Timmy is right on this one and he will win because the officer will not be able to show that the radar was working accurately. That is the duty of the officer not of Timmy. Timmy does not have to prove that he is innocent but they have to prove that he is guilty. The only way to do that is by providing the radar evidence. They can't do that! He can win!

He was guilty so pay he should just pay the fine. He is not going to win. The accuracy of the radar technology will be accepted in court.

The only way this young man would win, is if the officer was not certified to use the radar equipment.

If he can prove the officer did not have the training, the ticket would be thrown out.

What ever happened to taking responsibilty for your own actions? Is this teen arguing that he was not traveling at the speed the officer is stating or is he just trying to get off on a technicality? I think this is a very poor attitude to encourage in this young man. If he knowingly broke the law but simply wishes to test the system then the maximum fine should be assessed if he is still found guilty.
The cop should also request that this boy supply proof that his odometer is working correctly. Many things such as new tires can make your odometer work incorrectly, so he has no real proof how fast he was traveling either.
Dont get me wrong, if you feel you are right I think you should persue any matter, but to try the legal system for the sake of getting out of a wrong doing is irresponsible. I would think a parent and the community would be lecturing this 17 year old child about the dangers of speeding in an automobile and that millions die each year from excessive speed, not saying hey this is how you can break the law and win.

Calibrated? Eh Norman I figured you would have already realized with today's technology that through an intricate system connected to the speedometer - the radar adjusts for car motion - relative to the patrol car - and gives the actual speed. This is calibrated daily - prior to use. So let's see, self calibrating radar guns, new technology has pretty well put the nail in the coffin. With today's technology they are virtually error proof.

Here some links to modern radar guns:
http://www.stalkerradar.com/law.shtml
http://www.kustomsignals.com/
http://www.policeone.com/police-technology/radar/

Your turn Norman I'm calling you OUT!

Oh no Norman I'm starting to really get on the ball right now! Here it is from the State Police website!

http://www.wvstatepolice.com/legal/faq's.html

City Police Powers

Q. Can a city police officer work outside of the town limits?

A. Yes. City officers may leave the city limits to deal with crimes that occurred in the city as long as they remain in the county in which the city is located. This includes the pursuit of fleeing vehicles out of the city. Also, city, county, and state law enforcement agencies are permitted by law to enter into mutual aid agreements that may permit a city officer to leave the city and deal with matters that did not originate within the city.


Q. Do police officers have to be "certified" in order to lawfully operate a radar unit in West Virginia?

A. No, no certification is required under the law.
Radar

Q. When I am stopped for exceeding the speed limit and I request to see my speed on the radar, is the trooper required to show me the speed display on the radar?

A. No, federal National Highway Traffic Administration regulations prohibit troopers from locking-in or freezing vehicle speeds on the radar thus, the display would be blank.


Q. Is it illegal to use and possess a radar detector in West Virginia?

A. No.


Q. Does radar work when the police car is moving toward me?

A. Yes, modern radar units are able to detect vehicle speed both when the police vehicle is moving and when it is stationary.

Him Norman it looks as if though you theory is getting shorter and shorter. Still waiting for you to fire back, Timmy your sunk buddy.

P.S.
I know your glasses are thick(like your head) so in case you didn't notice the link before here it is again.
http://www.wvstatepolice.com/legal/faq's.html

Keep in mind that this is Pocahontas County. Why would you assume that we have "modern" radar? This is the same Pocahontas County that one of it's finest LIED under oath...... committed perjury.

Yes we have modern technology radar wise in this county. I have seen the guns and I have worked the guns. Pan I think you were bringing something up that has no relevance to this argument. So thus I'm going to say that your so full of hot air you could blow up an onion bag. Either that or get the stories right.

Really? So you can prove what you've said? The guns are modern and no officer has lied under oath? Awaiting your proof..... not hot air.

I mean really Small, what has lead us to believe that if an officer pulls you over and says you were going x amount over the speed limit that THAT would be the truth?


C'mon! You've "worked" the guns! That would lead me to believe that you yourself are a deputy or one of the little girls riding with them. That statement alone dissolves your credibility.

and small town is owned. better luck next time.

How is asking if the county has modern equipment irrelevant? The entire basis of your argument was modern technology. Doesn't Pan's irrelevant question make your whole post irrelevant then as well?

Not owned yet, there is proof behind the guns. Hey it's your tax dollars I'm sure if you would go to the courthouse and ask Sheriff Jonese for a look at the radar he would be more than willing to do so. Plus if you asked for a demonstration he would probably honor your request. Heck call his office phone is 304 799 4445, but I doubt that you would have the ability to get up and go do it.

Now as for the matter of the lie. What does this have any relevance to? I mean if you can give me a direct link saying that for example officer John Doe said that the suspect was going 100 on the radar down slippery hill or bar ford, then i will admit defeat. Because this is impossible to maintain speeds like that in those areas.

And no pan I am not a girl that rides around with them. I am a feller that loves a good argument. Ok now waiting on you to reply...

P.S.
This getting pretty interesting.

And to Ewww,
grow up. what are you in the fourth grade using all those smilies?

Waiting for you Pan

Thanks dawg but, it's not that simple. The sheriff's dept has x amount of quota to meet per month in order to convince the sheriff that they are doing their job and not just out there knocking 13 y/o girls up as some has done. It is certainly not THAT big of a stretch to tell Mrs. Doe that she was in fact going 12 miles over the speed limit, write her a ticket and be on their way. Most people will pay that ticket plus court costs without ever looking at the radar or questioning the officer.

I'm still waiting on your proof small town. I want visual proof of your hands on experience..... not a "call the sheriff" cop out that you gave.

Proof Pan once again how am I going to have proof over the internet. YOU will have to look, ask, and listen. Did you not pay attention when they had sheriff camp and they explained of the radar... it wasn't a main seminar it was to the side to a few who were interested in it. So Pan that is all I can do for proof. The eyes can only see when one choses to open them. Get out there and dig around for yourself.

sorry dawg if I had you confused, the irrelevant question wasn't over modern technology it was for the lie.

Try making a 90 degree turn at 51 mph. Folks, they are making this stuff up! It can't be down without rolling. It is the sheriff's job to prove that he has competent legal equipment.

There was supposed to be a hearing today! Does anyone know what went on?

The sheriff's dept has no quota to fill PAN go look it up

Well sheriff's and state police both have told me it is not a quote per say, it is just a little talk if you don't have enough tickets.

You might want to pitch that "No Quota Thing" at Fayetteville or Summersville.

We are not in Fayetteville or Summersville so pitch what

What does this have to do with making a 90 degree turn at 51 mph? I thought the kid was given a ticket for going 39 mph in a 25 mph zone in the town of Marlinton.

39 IN A 25, AND NORMAN IS HELPING HIM BEAT IT?

YOU ARE ALL THE TIME, COMPLAINING THAT THE LAW IS NOT DOING THEIR JOB.

well norm as you well know ill pick on poc co, lawenforcement every chance i get have for years there is no love lost between them and me .as far as alkire went i didnt see a bit of spunk jerry dale had some spunk he just didnt know how to use it ..but ill also speak up for them sometimes which makes me a real screwball as if there was any doubt in anyones mind i was a screw ball.

I my challening the "39" With no calibration it could have been "19". There is no proof that the radar was reading correctly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

What about the woman doing "51" in a "40" while making a 90 degree right turn? That is proof that the radar needed calibrated!

Tom, I was simply pointing out that at least one radar wasn't working correctly! It is logical to think that the other one wasn't either!!

norm has a point and you would think that lawenforcement would want the radar guns with up to date calibration so when they use them its a done deal .it very well could of been off doubt it was off that much but its possible.

It is not a matter of how much off? J.L. Clifton can fix things if its just one mph? But we are talking a need to fix a ticket for 14 mph! That would take a lot of worth of J.L. to fix that one!

anymore stories being told about this case. I am away now and I would like to keep updated on it!

didn't Timmy's daddy work for 911 a few years back?

why can't we read the original story or pages?

The west virginia state code say's that it is illegal to give someone a ticket using radar or vascar in a municapality that in the last US. cencus has less then 2000 people in it. Marlinton has 1200 during the last one. check it out!!!!!!!

But I understand that Timmy went ahead and accepted Mr. Fixit's plea and pled no contest! I am sorry he didn't know about this law! He might still have time to appeal it!