Re: Wind Mills Camp Allegheny

Two members of the West Virginia Boundary Commission went on the McBride property to begin their investigation of the State line dispute. The County Commission had been invited by the Boundary Commission to attend their initial survey and I and David Fleming both drove to the State line to join the Boundary Commission. Mr McBride refused to allow us onto his property and said he'd have us arrested for trespass if we attempted to go along. I asked "Would you be calling the Virginia Police or the West Virginia Police as the boundary is in dispute". I don't think the intended humor of my question was well received. This refusal to allow your County Commission on his property tells me in no uncertain terms that the Wind Developers are not at all interested in any dialogue about the impact of this project on our County.

Like you were interested in dialogue. You may be peeing on my leg but I know it not raining.

Martin, with this post, you insult us that really know you.

You would have probably fell down on the property and sued him.

Sooo.....

County Commission telling private land owner that their land will be used as the County Commission sees fit (sewer plant issue).

....and.....

County Commission telling private land owner that the County Commission will decide what they can put on their property (windmill issue).

And the difference is???

NOT!!!!!!

What Martin wants must be the the best decision for the rest of the world. Him being all smart and everything. Again NOT!!!!!

Two faced you are right on.

While I was indeed hoping to go along, as the Boundary Commission had invited us to do, it is fine really to me. It turns out that the McBrides themselves had not invited us, nor anticipated our arrival.

I was at least glad to meet Mr. Tal McBride and his father Mack (sp?). Tal explained that only the Boundary Commission members would be allowed on their property so they could "do their job." Which, to be honest, was probably best.

Geoff Hamill from The Pocahontas Times was there, as well as Anne Adams from The Recorder. Additionally, there were 2 or 3 others. All of us that were not the Boundary Commissioners were politely informed we would not be allowed to attend with them. So just the Boundary Commission and the surveyor went out about the premises.

It was not a wasted trip entirely. I was glad to meet Tal McBride and his father, and they invited me to call them and they would be glad to show me the site, which I will do soon.

I hope the Boundary Commission was able to complete their task today, and I appreciate them coming over to help us ascertain the state boundary. It is an important question to be answered, and I am glad to have moved one step closer towards that answer.

DF
http://www.DavidMarchFleming.com/

Dave, your common sense is showing. Maybe I will change my opinion of you, since you are showing you not Martin's patsy

David, I am disappointed you didn't invite me! I would have helped answer Marty's question: Va or WV police!!!!!

Those were state officials and I assume that they had a "quorum" for their "meeting." The public has a right to attend a meeting of the Boundary Commission. I am a member of the public so I would have had a right to be at a public meeting. I assume that they moved to have an "executive session."

David, you have to have balls to do the right thing! Next time invite a professional reporter when you want the job done right! We whipped those Confederates once and we will do it again if we have to!!

I assume that you and Marty plan to file an open meetings complaint against the Boundary Commission if we don't like their results.

By the way, didn't you all invite Reta! Or has she already decided to give the land back to Virginia!

Let's get some facts straight: 1. Going onto the McBride property by the West Virginia Boundary Commission was to my understanding an official act. This was not a private matter even if it had not been ordered or directed by writ of a court or state agency. 2. The Boundary Commission was repopulated and then directed by the Governor of West Virginia to determine the State line at the request of the County Commission. 3. All three County Commissioners were invited by the Boundary Commission to attend this firsthand look. 4. Although on private property, this project is subject to much oversight and regulation by the State of Virginia and Highland County and, if the boundary of our State has been crossed, by the State of West Virginia. 5. The press was there as well hoping to further inform the public about the controversies surrounding the project.
The State of West Virginia has a duty to determine the extent its territory and the reach and power of its jurisdiction.
Refusal to allow the press and County Commission onto the property for this boundary matter does not seem to me to invite further dialogue.

Your understanding? Can you produce the documentation that it was an official act? And by whom? Not the County Commission. One should first confirm the legitimacy of such an act and be very mindful of the position that this action of "inviting" affects the obligations of the County Commission in a meeting capacity. Furthermore, it is my right as a private land owner to tell anybody who wishes to survey my land without the "proper documentation" to take a hike. You included. You nor the commission are part of the WV Boundary Commission. You should have politely declined their invitation and permitted them to do their job without influence from you. In my opinion, you were just grandstanding for the press. Your decision to take up this cause personally and then cloak it in the veil of county commission business is rubbing many of your constituents the wrong way. We all know of your dislike for any type of progress or development to occur in our county and frankly, in these hard economic times with too few jobs, your position is not popular. As a voter, a taxpayer, and a land owner, I believe it is time for you to listen to the people and not force your mindset on those that want progress to move forward and for the "powers to be" to begin to understand the needs of the community.

This is my last word on this controversy. I strongly dislike your tactics and cannot support your dictating of how private land owners can use their land. I am just hoping that the WV Boundary Commission finds that the land is in fact in Virginia. At least the good folk in Highland County understand that new and innovative technologies are necessary for our communities and our country to survive. And then officially,with the proper documentation, someone can tell you to mind your own business.

Amen to Watchful eye. Yes Marty has sure lost my future vote on several issues such as this. I would much rather see a windmill, than mountain top removal, or a tall smokestack. And what difference does it really make if it is in VA/WV, if it is on property owned by McBride. I wish I could have some of these windmills on my farm.

This is why I do not talk about local politics. It's usually a family, friend, or neighbor involved. And the politician stance is known regardless of what they promise on election day.

All I have to say is you got what you voted for. Try to remember on election day.

100% right Watchful Eye

If any thing good comes out of this, it will be the People of Pocahontas will see their mistake in voting for Martin Saffer.

I have a new found respect for Fleming!

This thread only points out how people with titles think that they can create the law.

"Boundry Commission," County Commissioners, Police, "Reporters," etc. Now to the best of my recollection at least one of these folks is an "Esquire." That means he should know some basic Constitutional law.

I don't give a hoot about how some folks may be "appointed to a Commission" by the governor. That does not give them the right to enter anyone's property uninvited. And I do not believe such a Commission has any legal right to even obtain a search warrant. After all they are not the "Law." Perhaps if the "law" got a search warrant the "Commission" could be escorted onto the property.

In the United States we are protected against unwarranted searches and seizers.

In my experience this protection has meant nothing to officer of the law, bureaucrats, nor West Virginia attorneys. I guess that even those who obtained their "Esquire" from other states succomb to that disease of amnesia when they enter the Mountain State.

When the WV Record declared that I was the best "attorney" in WV despite not being and Esquire it was flattering, but I attribute the complement not to my skills, but to the lack of skills of the "real" lawyers.

This thread just highlights those differences.

I agree with you Joel! We do have some poor lawyers. Maybe its because they went to unaccredited law schools.

No, just keeping history in context!!!

Norman

Why don't you put one of those polls on the site ask for approval/disapproval of the each CC.

Also How many are in favor of the windmills in Va and how many oppose.

It probably won't happen because you are afraid of the answers.

The commission is mad because they can't get the money from the wind mills to waste.You would think they would have something inportance to do other than waste our money on something like this.I've been by the wind mills in tucker county an didn't see anything bad about them. We the people of Pocahontas need to fired the dead beets at eletion time and show them the people still have the power to run the county.And put people in that cares about us an not them self.You would have thought they would have learn that when Mr.Carpenter got fired.

Now here is what I find interesting: Someone posting that Mr. Saffer is "two faced" yet, they have to use to two user names to appear that they are two two different posters with the same agenda. So, "Two faced" and "Member of Martin Saffer Fan Club", perhaps you can create a "third face" to continue your agenda.

I don't give a hoot about how some folks may be "appointed to a Commission" by the governor. That does not give them the right to enter anyone's property uninvited.

Are you 100% sure about that Joel. Look at Items a and e below. Surveyors can enter upon private land to establish boundary lines. It appears that is what the Boundary Commissiones and their surveyor were doing.

WV CODE - CHAPTER 61. CRIMES AND THEIR PUNISHMENT.
ARTICLE 3B. TRESPASS.

"Trespass" under this article is the willful unauthorized entry upon, in or under the property of another, but shall not include the following:

(a) Entry by the state, its political subdivisions or by the officers, agencies or instrumentalities thereof as authorized and provided by law.

(b) The exercise of rights in, under or upon property by virtue of rights-of-way or easements by a public utility or other person owning such right-of-way or easement whether by written or prescriptive right.

(c) Permissive entry, whether written or oral, and entry from a public road by the established private ways to reach a residence for the purpose of seeking permission shall not be trespass unless signs are posted prohibiting such entry.

(d) Entry performed in the exercise of a property right under ownership of an interest in, under or upon such property.

(e) Entry where no physical damage is done to property in the performance of surveying to ascertain property boundaries, and in the performance of necessary work of construction, maintenance and repair of a common property line fence, or buildings or appurtenances which are immediately adjacent to the property line and maintenance of which necessitates entry upon the adjoining owner's property.

Well. Looks like Tom’s right as to the question of whether or not it would be a crime for the Commission members to enter the property, assuming they were taking part in the survey , and assuming the property is in West Virginia. For all we know, there may be some similar statute in Virginia.

But what is interesting here is the knee-jerk reaction against any interference in private property that we’ve seen before concerning issues like zoning. Many in Pocahontas County think that the state has no interest in what’s done on private property regardless of the effect on others of the activity being pursued. For these people, there is no hog farm too stinky, no degradation of the view scape too offensive, no activity too abhorrent to justify government interference with private property rights. It matters not how undesirable the activity is or the effect on neighbors’ property values.

Questions for these people: What if a neighbor opened a strip club? What if a neighbor strip mined the property you view through your picture window? What if he opened a glue factory that you got to smell 24/7? What if he simply decided to play rap music at high volume deep into the night?

Does the government have any role in protecting our way of living? May government take action to preserve our land values?

If you can literally do anything you want on your property, so can your neighbor. Throughout the civilized world a person’s freedom to do what he wants with his property is tempered by reasonable regulations that help preserve his neighbor’s property, and the neighbor’s enjoyment thereof. Is this wrong? Do we not care about our neighbor?

Isn’t there something that's been said about loving him?

The irony is that Highland County has zoning and they are having the windmills put on their "zoned" property. WV isn't zoned and we have a better chance of fighting the windmills than they do.

PROOF POSITIVE THAT ZONING IS A RICH MAN'S TOOL FOR DOING WHAT HE WANTS TO THE POOR MAN

Alderman asserts there’s a better chance that non-zoned WV will stop windmill construction than a zoned Virginia. Therefore, zoning is a tool for inflicting the will of the rich upon the poor. Let’s leave aside the leap of faith that’s required to believe that there’s a higher chance of WV stopping windmill construction than Virginia, a proposition for which I see no support. But assuming for the sake of argument that West Virginia would stop the project if it had jurisdiction, I see no reason to draw from this the conclusion that zoning is a tool of the rich.

Zoning does protect property owners from having their property destroyed by the activities of bad neighbors. If owning property makes a person rich, yes, zoning protects the class of people who own property. So if you assume that only the rich own property, then zoning is a tool of the rich.

Personally, I don’t want our horizons littered with these huge lighted windmills. It’s not a choice between having the mountaintop removed and windmills. We don’t even get enough wind for reliable wind production. The areas that are really good for wind power generation are on the northeast coast, and the great plains. Wind production projects in our mountains are only here because of the tax benefits that flow to their owners. These windmills do nothing to benefit West Virginians, but they certainly do spoil the view and lower our property values.

Southwestern West Virginia is fast becoming a wasteland form mountaintop removal. Thousands of West Virginians have died in our mines. Many more have died from black lung. We have scars all over the state resultant from energy production, both on the landscape and on the people. But we still have our wonderful eastern mountains mostly intact.

“Oh, the West Virginia hills! How majestic and how grand,
With their summits bathed in glory, Like our Prince Immanuel's Land!”

Our summits are disappearing in Boone, Logan and Mingo. They’ve been blasted off.

West Virginia has done more than its share to supply the energy demands of America and the world. I’m not ready to give up what little we have left. Let’s keep our wonderful Allegheny peaks bathed in glory.

And let’s give a little credit to Mr. Saffer for making the attempt.

The may get their windmills but there is one thing for sure. They will not be mountain top removal coal mining on Allegheny Mountain.

Ok, let's assume that your neighbor is the man who owns the land upon which the windfall is being built mostly in Virginia in a "zoned" county. Is he a good neighbor or a bad neighbor? I think he is a bad neighbor. So how does "zoning" protects us from "bad neighbors."

1. Bats eat bugs. Windmills kill bats. Less bats, more bugs.

2. Bugs carry disease. More bugs more disease.

3. Less bugs safer environment!

So if you want to have less disease in a community you need to have more bats to protect you from the bugs who carry the disease!!!!!!

It is a health issue!!

1. Windmills kill bats.

2. Bats carry rabies.

3. Less bats, less rabies.

4. Less bats safer environment!

You are right Stinkwell. It is a health issue!!

are the windmills lit up so they draw bugs? did you know some bats also eat blood?

when you don't have anything else, that's what you go to the health issue. Question is would you rather have mountain top removal or windmills. One or the other

Let me tell you all somthing about Max Mcbride.. He is a one of the nices man u'll ever met. But can be a person that you'll wish you never met.. I have know max and his family for a while.. For what there trying to do is a good thing.. let me ask every one this.. hows your power bill right now, high right. Well before this county and the know it all down in Marlinton start what there doing.. Max told me that all the power from the wind tower was going to be ran down this side of the mountain to help the people in Pocahontas County.. But now since everyone started running there mouth like this counties good for.. The power will probley more like help the people in Virginia. Because they know how to keep there mouth closed.. So everyone can know thank all of the know it alls in Marlinton.. So just keep ur mouth closed and stop tring to ruins someone life..

Any power generated by windmills goes into a power grid and is used wherever the power company decides. So unless Mr. McBride owns the power company then he will NOT decide where the power goes. Sounds like more propaganda to encourage the windmills. Mr McBride will benefit most because of all the money he stands to make if the windmills become a reality while Pocahontas County will not get any benefit from the power generated. I personally wouldn't want those gigantic windmills within site of my home or within site of the battlefield.

Mcbride does own them.. the only person that wouldn't want them near his house would be Goodall.. and you wouldn't be able to see them from the battle fields how stupid.. anyone with common sense would know that now please.. every body is talk about McBride windmills and how there going to kill bats and make noise, why doesn't anyone go talk to Laska on the old Pike about the two or three that he has up.. It's bad when you can be on 250 and hear them turning now thats noise so why don't anyone check on that.. They must be a serect or someone paied someone off so he could have put them up..

What would be so unusual about a company selling power to Pocahontas County.? All of our electricity comes in from some other place. Perhaps a deal could be made to get cheaper rates from the wind enterprise.If they are using our natural resource, the wind. we should get some thing positive from it such as lower electric bills.

This is just a thought, but if there was no opposition to coal or nuclear power, we would not be having this discussion, because energy would be so cheap that it would not be economically possible to build these windfarms.

i'm so sorry i typed it Max instead of Mac..Because he didn't mind how i put it ok.. so i figured i would fixes it.. but has any one check on the ones that laska put up. If not i'm going to have a big write up about his, because you can see them from the old pike road and they look terrible while your driving up the road.. Loud my god there loud.. so i thank this needes check on to..

well someone's brain must be burning now or i really finally shut all of ur mouths up.. because it about time u all let it be..

No need to discuss it any further. It is a dead issue. If they want to build the windmills they will build the windmills.

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