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Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

For instance, the cover story, "Medical Murder," documents how British seniors, under a government-run system, "are routinely denied treatment for cancer, heart disease and other deadly illnesses," many dying "in filthy, overcrowded hospitals or nursing homes, rife with pestilence, including the deadly, antibiotic-resistant superbugs." Numerous horror stories of needed medical care intentionally denied reveal the stark reality of government-run health care worldwide.

To a small degree, Obamacare's ominous implications are starting to leak out. Here's how columnist Charlotte Allen explained it recently in the Los Angeles Times:

In looking for a way to fund healthcare, Obama has set his eye on the oldest and sickest. You see, according to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, about 30 percent of Medicare spending – nearly $100 billion annually – goes to care for patients during their last year of life. What if there were no 'last year of life,' the president seems to be asking. ... hy not save billions of dollars by killing off our own unproductive oldsters and terminal patients, or – since we aren't likely to do that outright in this, the 21st century – why not simply ensure that they die faster by denying them costly medical care? The savings could then subsidize care for the younger and healthier.

And for those who have been paying close attention, Obama himself has ever-so-gently hinted at his true intentions. At a town hall event in June televised by ABC News, Obama cited the case of his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, who died on the eve of his election, suggesting one way to cut medical costs would be to stop expensive procedures on people about to die.

Families, Obama said, need better information so they don't approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

"Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller," the president offered.

Obama was slightly more explicit in a May 3 interview with the New York Times, when he said there ought to be a national "conversation" over whether "sort of in the aggregate, society making those decisions to give my grandmother, or everybody else's aging grandparents or parents, a hip replacement when they're terminally ill is a sustainable model." Such decisions, added Obama, shouldn't be left to patients or their relatives, but to a "group" of "doctors, scientists, ethicists" who are not part of "normal political channels."

One such elite medical decision-maker would be Obama’s special adviser for health policy, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, brother of Rahm Emanuel. He's a longtime advocate of "age-weighted medical rationing" – meaning, the older you are, the less care you get, as in Britain. But what about the Hippocratic Oath, you might ask, the sacred vow doctors have always taken to do all they can to heal their patients? As Whistleblower documents, Emanuel advises doctors to stop taking that oath so literally, and instead to be "prudent" in assessing how much time, effort and money each patient is worth, for the greater good of society.

Moreover, as "MEDICAL MURDER" reports, a bill being pushed hard by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate Finance Subcommittee on Health Care, will take from Congress all authority over federal health spending and decree that such decisions in the future would be made by a secretive committee of "experts" modeled after – are you ready? – the Federal Reserve Board.

Highlights of "MEDICAL MURDER" include:

* "It's D-Day for choice in health care" by Joseph Farah

* "The evil of Obamacare" by David Kupelian

* "Alice in Medical Care" by Thomas Sowell, who says those raising healthcare alarm are "long on catch phrases, short on coherence"

* "Medical murder" by Richard Poe, a stunning, in-depth investigative report why Obamacare could result in the early deaths of millions of baby boomers

* "Massachusetts: A model not to copy" by Phyllis Schlafly, who shows the Obama-Kennedy health care bill is based on a failing plan

* "Government is the problem" by Ben Shapiro, on why Obama's plan will only make America's health care system worse

* "How Obama's health care agenda will hurt American families" – documenting how the plan chips away at fundamental rights while putting bureaucrats in control of decisions

* "Entitled to be sick, fat and self-destructive" by Star Parker, who says personal responsibility is at the heart of the real health care solution

* "Exposing the myths of universal health coverage," by Devon Herrick, on why Obama's plan to lower costs would have the opposite effect

* "'45 million Americans' – who are those guys?" by Larry Elder, revealing what the government isn't telling you about the so-called "uninsured"

* "Health care is not that complicated" by C. Edmund Wright, who shows graphically what would happen to auto repair if we used the same system of insurance?

* "Live free or die" by Mark Steyn, who explains how government health care "can be used to justify almost any restraint on freedom"

"Obamacare is arguably the single most important issue of our time," said Kupelian. "It's not about taxes, debt, wasteful spending or burdensome regulations – it's about our very lives, and the lives of our loved ones. Americans seriously need to wake up and see the horror staring them in the face, and then they need to let their elected representatives know, in no uncertain terms, exactly what they think of Obamacare."

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

I guess that explains the "End of Life" counseling every senior will be FORCED to go through every five years! We need to stop this bill, and Jay Rockefeller will never get my vote again! What is wrong with our congress??? Oh, I forgot, they have their own health care pan that won't be affected by this new one so they can have whatever procedures done they want! If they are 80 years old and have a heart attack and want stints, they can get them, just not our loved ones!

Government has NO PLACE in health care!

In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren't quite "purely voluntary," as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, "purely voluntary" means "not unless the patient requests one." Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive — money — to do so. Indeed, that's an incentive to insist.

Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they're in the meeting, the bill does permit "formulation" of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would "place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign," I don't think he's being realistic.

. . . Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life's end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it's good to have a doctor's perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party — the government — recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don't have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

and i repeat , the AARP is supporting obaymes health care bill !!!!!
how many sr's here are a member and think this is good??? go to their website if you dont believe me. its all right there !!! sr's are quitting the AARP because of this very thing !!!

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

I am tired of reading about this drivel about the British lack of care of its older citizens. My mother was in 3 different state-run nursing homes in Lancashire. The biggest had 30 residents. Each one was spotless, the medical care superb, and the nursing care respectful and loving. We could visit any time and I arrived at just about any time of day unannounced and the level of care was consistently
superior. My sister visited daily and brought her two dogs to visit the residents and was viewed by them as extra family. At no time was my mother denied care, even at the age of 93. She was lovingly nursed through influenza and, when she died, the director drove for 2 hours to attend her funeral in Cheshire and spoke of her as tenderly as if she were family. Every system has abuses, but having visited numerous relatives in long care facilities, I totally refute the nonsense that is perpetrated on these pages.
If you do not know whereof you speak, please refrain
from repeating arrant nonsense.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Beautiful post, Dr. McNeel. Thank you.

First we had birthers...and now we apparently have deathers. I don't think you can be both a birther and a deather, so you are going to have to choose.

Of course, you could always choose reason and logic, but that is in short supply around here.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

I would have to ask when this went this happened. Becasue information from outside the US begs to differ.
Here is a report from Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, it's one of the fluff UN groups. And it shows everything that is being said is correct. Of course this is before the Obama lead media and his followers saying these countries are cutting edge in all catagories. This was back in the bad days of Bush jr. http://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resources/care_in_five_countries.pdf

If you read the whole report, our healthcare system beats England, Canada in all catagories. So why should we abandon a system that beats all others to make our healthcare like theres.

Again if there so wonderful, why are they not the top of these catagories. Reason there not. So all your wonderful stories are moot. Hard facts arn't...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

I totally agree. It's hard to imagine why otherwise intelligent people believe Rush Limbaugh's Percocet/Vicodin induced hallucinations and rhetoric, but they do. It'd be funny if it weren't so pathetic!
I hope Limbaugh never does a remake of the radio show drama "War of the Worlds!" If he does, thousands upon thousands of idiots (mostly Republican) will be in a hysterical panic. They'll NEVER believe it's just a ficticious drama, knowing with certainty that evil ALIENS have invaded planet Earth. Because after all, Rush said it...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Obama Kool-aid 4 Pictures, Images and Photos

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

There are numerous accounts of low quality health care in England and Canada. Get on Yahoo! Answers or other blogs and find out what real people from these government-run health care countries go through.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Then purchase your own personal health insurance plan and don't participate in government run healthcare. Aren't you one of the "Obama supporters" who were so GUNG-HO to put Obama in office? You got what you wished for, so quit whining about the policies he is implementing.
After all, you wanted CHANGE, didn't you?

Nobody has answered this question

If the "state run" medical delivery systems in Europe and Canada are so hopelessly flawed, with people dying in squalor and being denied the basic necessities of health care, why is there no movement in those countries to privatize their health care systems? Are they just too stupid and ignorant to realize how inferior their system is to ours?

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

To: MCG
Then purchase your own personal health insurance plan and don't participate in government run healthcare. Aren't you one of the "Obama supporters" who were so GUNG-HO to put Obama in office? You got what you wished for, so quit whining about the policies he is implementing.
After all, you wanted CHANGE, didn't you?



I NEVER supported Obama! And I have family on Medicare so it isn't just about me! I was one who said Obama keeps talking about change but you never know what that change may be - that was never made clear during the campaigning and people blindly followed him because he was the DEMOCRAT candidate! If I would have gotten what I wished for, what I voted for, we would be saying President McCain and Vice-President Palin!!

Re: Nobody has answered this question

slatyforkfool
If the "state run" medical delivery systems in Europe and Canada are so hopelessly flawed, with people dying in squalor and being denied the basic necessities of health care, why is there no movement in those countries to privatize their health care systems? Are they just too stupid and ignorant to realize how inferior their system is to ours?



They definitely realize it and make posts warning the Americans to not fall for it! They are trying to get something done about it, I just pray we keep our freedom to have our say in Washington DC.

That's weak

You will have to do better than just saying that they "post" about it. Please, if it is as bad as people on here predict our state run system will be there would be people in the streets in these other countries. In fact, there is a very interesting post on this site about wonderful experiences in the UK system, if that is your measuring stick.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Government has NO PLACE in health care![/quote]

I totally agree. The government should end all Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare programs. If a person wants health care insurance let them purchase a policy from a private insurer just like they do with their home and auto insurance.

Re: Nobody has answered this question

There are no posts that I have seen from England or Canada warning us not to accept their system:Occasionly there is a paid mouthpiece on certain non-liberal talk shows spouting their expected critiques. It is dishonest , bad mannered and unfriendly for people in this country to say that Canadians, the English and other nations allow the elderly to die from neglect and that people of any age have to wait years for treatment. They have a high degree of satisfaction with the system.Their system is no more rationed than is ours.

Re: Nobody has answered this question

Yahoo search shows 98,876,000 search results for "England, bad healthcare"

Not too hard to find these stories. Anything before 2009 would be nonbias republican talking point. Give a few a read. Remember the old saying, "reading is power"

Re: Nobody has answered this question

My own quote, "Our government officials stink. It's official".
Yahoo search shows 98,876,000 search results for "England, bad healthcare"

Not too hard to find these stories. Anything before 2009 would be nonbias republican talking point. Give a few a read. Remember the old saying, "reading is power"


I just searched my name on yahoo, I got 1,330,492 topics first 15 pages was nothing about me. Go Figure!

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

To: Denise
Rush is no addict and you know it. You are probably on more drugs than he is. Did he get hooked on pain killers that he had a legal prescription for his back. Yes he did. Did he get care for that yes he did. Has he overcome the dependance on those pain killers yes he has. And does he do charitable service to help others that were / are having the same experience, yes he is.
And as far as Rush's "hallucinations and rhetoric"
You must mean where he plays taped recordings of THE HUSSEIN lying out of both sides of his mouth. Rush doesn't even make comments on that THE HUSSEIN does it to himself.

Re: That's weak

slatyforkfool
You will have to do better than just saying that they "post" about it. Please, if it is as bad as people on here predict our state run system will be there would be people in the streets in these other countries. In fact, there is a very interesting post on this site about wonderful experiences in the UK system, if that is your measuring stick.


sf fool
You are correct ! "people in the streets in these other countries"

Those people are in the streets. It just so happens they had to come to America to get the health care they needed and the streets are right here in America.

Re: Nobody has answered this question

answer
Just for you.


Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Gee Roger, are you really an adult? How utterly profound of you to point out I must be "on more drugs than he (Rush) is. I've noticed a trend, Roger. People who are hooked on pain pills tend to get VERY defensive, making remarks such as those you directed towards me.
Got some news for you, bud. Rush admitted he ABUSED those "legal prescriptions for his back," even going so far as to purchase the drugs ILLEGALLY on the black market in Palm Beach. But since he's doing all those "charitable works," that must make being an addict OK in your book. Right?
As much as I dislike him, at least he didn't make any excuses for himself, which is admirable...even for a kook. Matter of fact, Limbaugh said that he is "not making any excuses" and that he is "no role model."
"I refuse to let anyone think I am doing something great here, when there are people you never hear about, who face long odds and never resort to such escapes. They are the role models," he said.
You just keep taking your own "legal prescription," Roger, and if it makes you feel better to think everyone who disagrees with you is "on more drugs" than you are, then by all means. Go ahead...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Rush lies about our president just like you do,Alias Sharp.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Neither of you have listened to a full Rush show but you like to make absolute comments about him. You are just goose stepping THE HUSSEIN's talking points on the matter.

To I'll take the blood test for drugs challenge if you will. And let's do it for all drugs in your system, legal and illegal to see who is the druggie.
You up for that ?

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Gee Roger, you can dish it out but can't take it, can you? I find that rather amusing since you're the one who first accused ME of being on drugs, but apparently found it offensive when I used the same argument about you.
Are you going to pay for my "drug test," Roger? You'll have too, because I have no intentions of paying for it out of my own pocket, and I know darn well my insurance company isn't going to accept "I was challenged by an Etater kook to prove I'm not a druggie" as an excuse to justify paying for it. Unlike you, I have to work for a living and can't afford all the luxuries you're used to mooching off the government. Likewise, the system doesn't pay for my medical bills, so I guess you'll either have to pay for my test out of your own pocket or request that we sign up for the Jerry Springer show...

Post Script: I most certainly have listened to many a Ruch Limbaugh show, which is how I determined he is a crackpot. Birds of a feather flock together, Roger.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

To
You do not deserve (With comments like you have posted so far) to use my monaker in your name. Can't you find your own ?

"You'll have too, because I have no intentions of paying for it out of my own pocket"

I knew you wouldn't accept the challenge. Most druggies won't. And I would have to pay for my test out of my pocket.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Roger, you're a hate mongering, right-wing extremist who can't justify your ridiculous, pathetic rhetoric, so you resort to drug test challenges to divert the attention away from your lack of rationale.
Now excuse me, I have to go snort some drugs, or maybe shoot myself up with something before heading off to work. I'm jealous of you, Roger. It must be really nice to pretend to be disabled in order to receive a free monthly check, courtesy of the tax payers you suck the life-blood from. Too bad the government doesn't have a test to check for parasites within the system...I'd challenge YOU to that test. But of course you wouldn't accept the challenge. Most people guilty of disability fraud won't...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Don't you know? Roger thinks it's OK for him to attack whomever he wishes. It's just not OK for anyone to attack him. I think that's called being a hypocrite.
And speaking of, I believe I was "challenged to a drug test." First thing I did this morning after he accused me of being a "druggie" was root around in my office file cabinet and pull out a manditory drug test screening required by my employer. Here is the photocopy of my results, and understandably you realize, Roger, that I erased the SS number and other personal information off the document. I will, however, let you see my first name and my age.
I now challenge YOU to put your money where your big, fat mouth is and post your own drug test, Rog. You ARE going to honor your challenge and go take one, right? If not, you've proved yourself a hypocrite. Again...

Photobucket

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Thanks Lynda,

It is amazing how most of these posters, claiming to also be Christians, so easily throw around their arrogance, self righteousness, I am smarter than you, judgemental condemnation of those who just want a better, more healthy, dignified life and death for all Americans. I find it amazing that they would abandon the teachings of Christ, allow people to suffer and die and spout out their bigotry, racism, homophobia and prejudices just so they can yell and scream their nonsense.

There has to be a much stronger word then HYPOCRITE.

I think the word SICK might be more appropriate.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Stop trying to change the subject, Roger. You can try to divert attention away from your faux pas all you want to, but it's not going to work. You threw down the gauntlet and challenged me to a drug test. You said you'd take one if I took one, and further remarked that you KNEW I'd refuse because that's what DRUGGIES DO. I posted drug test results from just a short period ago which prove I'm not on drugs, so now the ball's in your court to prove YOU'RE not a druggie...as per your challenge.
So Roger, when you gonna go take your portion of the drug test you claimed you'd submit to? I'll bet you never do, and never had any intentions of doing so in the first place. Which is what blowhards do...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Am I mistaken, or did Roger begin to "attack" me after I made a comment to Denise? In that comment, I never even mentioned Rogers name or made any reference to Roger. I stated my opinion about Rush Limbaugh, and that's when Roger began his personal attack on me, calling me a "druggie."
That's the way I see this situation, and if you dish it out, expect to have some served right back to you, Roger.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Yes, you are correct. Look all of these guys are so drugged up by their prejudices that they cannot stand any confrontation.

Roger especially has put his entire life on hold just so he can bad mouth everything and everyone who wants this country to succeed. He has even put his claim to being a Christian on hold so that he can spray his sinful ways all over the manure yard.

I am sure his next ploy will be to cry that this is not about him.

Of course it is. When these guys fabricate, distort, lie and manipulate information it surely is all about them.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

"Most druggies won't."

Is this the comment you 2 are discussing amongst yourseves and providing judgement ?

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Roger and his gang should take a cue from Norman. Folks attack Norman all the time and he just rolls with it. He does not start crying. He does not run and hide. He does not moan and groan.

Roger you are on here 24/7 deal with your critics and get on with whatever you think you are doing. No one thinks that you understand any of this so quit crying.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

If joel is so smart why does he talk like his brains are scrambled?

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Slipper,

It is simple. In order for me to make sure that imbiciles like yourself understand me I sometimes have to talk DOWN to your level of comprehension.

With your post above I can tell that I was successful.

Now if you will only relay the message to those anti-Americans and anti-Christians above to whom I cannot lower myself anymore I will appreciate it.

Thanks, Slipper.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Tom
Government has NO PLACE in health care!


I totally agree. The government should end all Medicare, Medicaid and Welfare programs. If a person wants health care insurance let them purchase a policy from a private insurer just like they do with their home and auto insurance.[/quote]

What about those people who are disabled or have disabled children that were born that way and were unable to purchase regular insurance because of preexisting conditions? What do you tell those people?

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Are you trying to emulate me? It won't work. Sorry.
And Roger, you are the one who first made the statement "most druggies won't," and that was in regards to the drug test challenge you claimed I was refusing because "most druggies" wouldn't take a drug test.
Speaking of, you keep trying to divert the attention away from the drug test challenge. Are you backing out? I knew you would, becuase that's what people who are using pain pills would do. Even if they are LEGALLY PRESCRIBED, Roger, they can still be abused and obtained by false pretenses.
That's not a "judgement," Roger, that's a FACT. I'm going to keep reminding you about the drug test until you keep your own challenge and do what you claimed you'd do. If you start studying for your drug test right now, Rog, you may be able to pass it in 7 to 10 days...

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

Their is a second wind a blowing.

I have defended Norman. In fact the last thread that was devoted solely in attacking him I was the one who complained about it. Personal attacks are not acceptable from any etater poster towards any other etater poster.

And I am so glad others are so concerned about how I spend my time. Your devotion in tracking it is appreciated. I am sorry for you (since you seem to think I am doing too much) that you do not know how to budget your time to get things done. But hang in there, keep watching and maybe just maybe you will be able to learn how it is done.

Re: In the future, Dr. Kevorian will be a Hero Not an Inmate

To: Used to Be FYI
Don't you know? Roger thinks it's OK for him to attack whomever he wishes. It's just not OK for anyone to attack him. I think that's called being a hypocrite.
And speaking of, I believe I was "challenged to a drug test." First thing I did this morning after he accused me of being a "druggie" was root around in my office file cabinet and pull out a manditory drug test screening required by my employer. Here is the photocopy of my results, and understandably you realize, Roger, that I erased the SS number and other personal information off the document. I will, however, let you see my first name and my age.
I now challenge YOU to put your money where your big, fat mouth is and post your own drug test, Rog. You ARE going to honor your challenge and go take one, right? If not, you've proved yourself a hypocrite. Again...

Photobucket


As you say the name was removed. And your company allows you to keep your own drug test hmmm interesting.
You can no more prove that piece of paper is yours than I can.

My challenge is to meet me at the lab where we both can verify the results. This little schrade of yours is no better than the fake certifiCATION.

So if you want to do it right I'm all for it. Shoot lets get Norman down to film the whole thing and show the etaters the verifiable results.

By the way I live in Ohio do I need to meet you in Marlinton ? You can make it there OK can't you ?

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Oh by the way I never mentioned you as a druggie I referred to "MOST druggies".

You are the one that included yourself in that group not me.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

To: To Tom
Are you trying to emulate me? It won't work. Sorry.


No I am not trying to "emulate" you. I didn't put the COLON behind my TO for one thing and for another I am one of your friends and it appears to me that you are jumping the gun with me Mrs. I asked TOM a question and I want TOM to answer. And another thing, I think that Joel and Roger need a life. All you ever see on here is bickering back and forth between them and it gets old. You can hardly read ANY thread without seeing the trash.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

Sorry. I did jump the gun and didn't realize who you were. Not long ago, someone started posting as "To" and was pretending to be me, so I assumed the person was at it again. Please accept my apologies and check your email.

Re: Medical Murder--Old People to Be Let Go to Die

It's ok. I knew you didn't know who I was because you would have known I wasn't trying to steal anything from ya! LOL! I love ya anyway! :)

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