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Aug 5-We would be grateful if you didn't open any new threads or continue existing ones  other than that one relating to Gerry.

Index > Chippy Forum > The Soapbox > "Say No To Sainsburys"
Forum: The Soapbox
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"Say No To Sainsburys"

A small hick town wants to stand in the way of progress!
I could understand if some of the local shops were not so greedy!
For goodness sake it is now 2011 and time maybe to come out of the dark ages!
Lets hope sensiblility will prevail!!

An R Key

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

ANN R KEY people don,t like the idea of sainsbury because when parker knoll put all those people out of work for profit they knew industrial units would not be built but they did,nt care now a big company like sainsbury will railroad in and kill the town and as you said it,s a hick town, well if you don,t like it go somewhere else

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I was amazed to see someone will hire the C&C for a meeting to complain about Sainsburys. Its not a hick town but for heavens sake there have been hundreds of houses built over recent years yet it hasnt progressed with a decent size supermarket so people are travelling out of town to shop.

As for industial units on the Bus garage site obviously after all these years it isnt going to happen so surely it is better to use the space than leave it idle. Unless you would like the new rubbish tip on it. Now hows that an idea to stir things up!!!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Be amazed no longer.
Nobody has "hired" the Crown & Cushion
The proprietress of the Crown (who strongly believes that an out of town supermarket will ruin the town centre) has kindly offered the use of the function room for this meeting.

Her son manages a hotel in Brackley and has seen first-hand what a market town in decline looks like.

What amazes me in Chippy is the way so many people seem happy to sign up for increased traffic congestion, much worse air pollution, closed shops and decreasing serious employment - all for a bit of extra personal convenience!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

chippy needs a new store, it will bring money into the town instead of people travelling to banbury to do their shopping, with the cost of fuel these days it will be more green. chippy needs to move with the times, sainsburys has good selection of goods in there banbury store, even the basic range is good and less expensive , which is what is needed in the present ecconomic times,hopefully they will stock some childrens clothes you cannot buy in chippy, and lastly surely more jobs are important and let face it more jobs mean more money to be spent in the town. bring it on sooner the better

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I seem to remember a similar argument when WH Smith came to town. Book shops and paper shops will close - ummmmm did it happen?

By the way how long has the manageress of the Crown been in Chippy to see it change as it has. I wonder where she does her main grocery shopping.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Nonsense there waas no such argument

Menzies were there before!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Isn't the co-op supposed to be expanding sometime soon? Surely this would provide some of the convenience that people are after?

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

The Co-op is far too expensive for everyday shopping - that's why the majority go to Banbury!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Menzies was were dotty ps is I think you will find, they were the days when we had two supermarkets in town and they were the same (gateways). Bring on sainsburys lets have it built soon.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I'm not sure you can compare Brackley with Chipping Norton. There's not much in the way of shops there to attract people except for Tesco's, Waitrose, The Antiques Cellar and the various coffee shops which seem to be springing up. At least Chippy is near Oxford and on the doorstep to the Cotswolds and attracts a lot of people to the area. Cyclists, motorcyclists, campers and those on their way to wherever stop over in Chippy - I don't know why anyone would want to stop over in Brackley on their way to anywhere in the same way.
The discussion about Sainsbury's will go on ad-nauseum, and then it will be built after all.....thank goodness.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Not for the first time I like your thinking AoS.

I think the businesses and other worthies in the town should be working out how they can make the most of this opportunity and talking to Sainsburys not snarling at them.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I lived for a few years in Frome, in many ways similar to C.N, with a good market & local businesses. Then came the edge of town supermarket & the town centre is largely closed down.I can't understand the arguments for going to large supermarkets in Banbury "because they're cheaper", with fuel costs as they are,how much are people buying to make up for the time & travel cost?Maybe it explains the increasingly obese population !

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Having come to live here not so long ago, having lived in large towns and small towns similar in character to CN but with branches of large supermarkets, my experience is that they charge according to the nearby competition rather than others some ten miles away. I admire the optimism that Sainsbury's will be any different and charge Banbury prices here.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

say no to sainsburys, say yes to tesco.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I am in full support of Sainsbury's and I will be attending this meeting to hear what is said and make my point too. Bloody nonsense.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I bet you wont!!
By the time you posted this the meeting had already been going for three quarters of an hour!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Didn't hear any opposition at the meeting.

75 people totally opposed and ready to fight.

Thank goodness.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: G
I am in full support of Sainsbury's and I will be attending this meeting to hear what is said and make my point too. Bloody nonsense.


All talk little man!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: Gerry
Didn't hear any opposition at the meeting.

75 people totally opposed and ready to fight.

Thank goodness.


I will support my local shops, my heart really goes out to them. If Sainsburys is built there, it is a ticking bomb a. for a business to close b. someone to be killed

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

All this talk! Why not put it to the vote of all Chippy people and see what the general public really want!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

75 people eh? in a town of what 6000!!!!!!!!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

You obviously have no experience in this town of trying to get people to turn out for meetings of this kind.

For a first exploratory gathering which wasn't widely advertised an attendance of 75 was an excellent result.

James, Jo and Linda deserve our congratulations for organising it all.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: looking to the future
chippy needs a new store, it will bring money into the town instead of people travelling to banbury to do their shopping, with the cost of fuel these days it will be more green. chippy needs to move with the times, sainsburys has good selection of goods in there banbury store, even the basic range is good and less expensive , which is what is needed in the present ecconomic times,hopefully they will stock some childrens clothes you cannot buy in chippy, and lastly surely more jobs are important and let face it more jobs mean more money to be spent in the town. bring it on sooner the better


More Green ??
With more and more cars,delivery vans etc. coming through the narrow streets of our town and sitting in jams with their engines running?
-and yet again, don't believe that a Chippy store will have the same prices as Banbury.They test the market as they have in their local store and gear their prices to how much they can get from a local
population.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Amazing!

'James, Jo and Linda deserve our congratulations for organising it all.'

All three of them have lived in Chipping Norton for 10 minutes and already telling us how to run the town and spend our money.

75 eh! NIMBYS from Parker Circus who don't want it in their back yard and the rest Co-op supporters and shopkeepers deciding who we should spend our money with.

Perhaps the builders in the town should get together to stop other builders from working here.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I don't count myself as a full Chippy person as I have only lived here about thirteen years, but I have to say -

Who are James, Jo and Linda? Guys flex your business muscles and get on with marketing Chippy, it's free parking etc etc rahter than draining precious resources fighting what appears to be the inevitable?

Get into dialogue with them in a constructive way.

This small business units thing....yes that was the understanding at the time but the world has changed a fair bit since then.

Radical thought...how about Sainsburys funding the building of the units on an alternative site in the town...I believe Gerry did suggest this at some point in the thread about Greystones...

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

It really is amazing how some people come to live in Chippy and within a few years they all know better than us who have lived here all our lives. This town said NO to Smiths Industries in the 19 40's who wanted to build on our old aerodrome. NO to Waitrose who wanted to move into the centre of the town several years ago and NO to Tesco a few years ago. Now look at Witney! They had no hospital, swimming pool and did nothing to help themselves at that time.We will forever be shopping out of the town for groceries at this rate unless we are dedicated Co-op supporters.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: I Love Sainsbury's.
Amazing!

'James, Jo and Linda deserve our congratulations for organising it all.'

All three of them have lived in Chipping Norton for 10 minutes and already telling us how to run the town and spend our money.

75 eh! NIMBYS from Parker Circus who don't want it in their back yard and the rest Co-op supporters and shopkeepers deciding who we should spend our money with.

Perhaps the builders in the town should get together to stop other builders from working here.


That is going into my big book of stunningly terrible debating points (I'm getting quite a collection at the moment).

To summarise the points in this thread: The town needs to progress and move forward. However, if in doing that, anyone actually moves into the town, they should not be treated as "real" residents, as they weren't born here and don't remember what happened in 1940.

James, Jo and Linda, among many others, have setup businesses in this town and are doing what they can to be successful in their chosen professions. What does it matter how long they have lived here - how about simply applauding them for moving here and trying to create a vibrant town centre? No-one is telling you how to spend your money - if you want choice, there's plenty within a 20-minute car journey of here. Having lived in London for 30 years before moving here, I can tell you that I can get to a large supermarket a hell of a lot quicker now than I could living in the centre of London.

As one of the Parkers Circus "NIMBY"s - I find it quite offensive that you are able to judge the motives of over 130 households based on nothing but your own misguided belief that a large, out-of-town store is somehow going to benefit you and you alone - not the town, just you.

To ignore the large number of perfectly valid objections to the site, covering everything from traffic, pollution, child safety and the basic legallity of the proposals as NIMBY-ism is simply a convenient and frankly ignorant way to justify the fact that all you are after is cheaper food. Not better food - just cheaper food.

If the store should get the go-ahead, as has already been said by many on this site, the prices will be comparable to Banbury - as in "a hell of a lot more than". The town will become even more congested and grind to a halt, house prices will fall as shops close and the residents of Blissfield Gardens pack up and move and the town will go the way of Stow and become an endless identikit tea-shop centre.

And you're still going to have to go to Banbury to get your cheap food.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

"This small business units thing....yes that was the understanding at the time but the world has changed a fair bit since then".

The only thing that has changed is that there is now an even greater need for them than there was then. Thousands of jobs are being created in nearby towns and we are getting none of the action because WODC has not been trying to promote Chippy as a place for starting a business by ensuring the provision of business units (unlike in Witney for example). WODC actually invest millions in commercial premises in Bicester and Cowley. Madness.

When Parker Knoll closed 500 skilled and semi-skilled jobs were lost to the town. For that sort of work many people now have to travel miles - as far as Swindon. This is turning Chippy into a commuter town. Dead during the day. Anyone who went to the market yesterday will know that there were only a handful of customers. Goodness knows how the stallholders survive.

We need to provide more real jobs that will appeal to our own school leavers so they see some prospect of a career in the town. Check-out clerk doesn't cut it!

"This town said NO to Waitrose who wanted to move into the centre of the town several years ago and NO to Tesco a few years ago". I've lived here 25 years taking notice and neither of these things happened during that time.

The attendees at the meeting last night were certainly not all NIMBYs. It was a wide cross section.

And FYI Jo Harper - the main organiser and proprietor of the Shoe Shop in New Street - has lived in Chippy for 35 years. I sat next to ex-Mayor Mike Dixon who is fiercely opposed to the Sainsbury development and can hardly be described as a NIMBY sort of person

Representatives of the Co-Op were present who said their major extension should be open within eighteen months. Twice the floor area of the existing store and 100 new parking spaces. As somebody commented - it might be better to wait until that has opened and then see if there is still a demand for even more store space out of town

Everybody should realise that the District and County have suddenly got cosy with Sainsburys for only one reason. All the land behind the PK site around Tank farm and across to the allotments is owned by the County. It is clearly the next area for housing development. The County will get access to that whole area by getting Sainsbury's to upgrade Trinity Road as part of their development. The residents at Parker Knoll will then not only share their only access with a supermarket but with the residents of 3/400 new homes as well!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Those who are FOR Sainsbury's don't need to do much - Sainsburys have appointed (i.e. paid a significant sum to) an agency (worryingly present at last night's PROTEST meeting) to fight for those who want a Sainsbury's. They have conducted a survey of 1,000 people (out of the 30,000+ Chippy catchment area) and despite admitting a "significant proportion" opposed to the development there were enough people in that survey who wanted and would shop at a new Sainsburys. That means that Sainsbury's see sufficient (i.e. large) profits to pursue the development.

They say they'll create 200 jobs (probably means 200 positions possibly equating to 60 jobs) but the net position (after inevitable town centre closures) will be lower than that. The reason they are pushing this point is that the land is currently designated as Class B1 Light Industrial - it's for employment purposes (hence headlines "New Store to Create 200 Jobs.") We currently have just 42 people in the town on Job Seekers allowance.

Sainsbury's say they will keep their High Street store but this is very unlikely. As the Co-op admitted last night the Monopolies Commission might have something to say about that. They had to get rid of the same site after acquisition of Somerfield for that very reason. So, if Sainsbury's staff up a new store - what happens to the staff at the old. They don't have to worry - Sainsbury's will find them work in Babury, WItney or Oxford.

Actually the MAIN objectors to this plan are people new to Chippy i.e. residents at Parker's Circus who bought their houses on the understanding that they'd be living next door to a relatively quiet Light Industrial and Business Park. They could soon be looking out on a VERY busy supermarket complex. It would appear they feel they've been misled.

Then there's Holy Trinity School - parents, governors and teachers there must be very concerned about the significant increase in traffic.

In fact we should all be very concerned about this. The "Clancydocwra roadwork" are giving us a flavour of the congestion we can come to expect with (and these are Sainsbury's figures) an additional 300 cars an hour. This isn't just about Chippy residents not having to drive to Banbury to do their shopping this is about the residents of Charlbury, Kingham, Over Norton, Salford, Churchill, Daylesford, Great and Little Tew, Great & Little Rollright, Long Compton, Enstone, Sarsden driving through the town to get their big shop.Pollution levels around Horsefair are already way outside EEC guideline/law! They would go off the scale.

Gerry made some excellent points last night:
We need to get organised to oppose this. Sainsbury's is organised and has the FOR argument buttoned down.

The only opposition likely to succeed is around PLANNING.
i.e.
- unsuitability of the site
- upholding the restrictive covenant (i.e. B1 Light Industrial
- volume of traffic and impact on infrastructure and road safety
- pollution levels
- change of use and implication on property values at Parker's Circus
- the depleted need, should Co-op go ahead with their Town Centre expansion.

I do think we need to engage with our planners on this - not alienate them - they're the last group we need to be hacking off.

Shipston-on-Stour are managing to hold off Tescos from developing the Norgen site - we should be talking to them - take a look at http://www.shipstononline.org/supermarket-threat.html

I also believe that we also have to prepare ourselves to mitigate the damage should Sainsbury's get the go ahead (and the odds are pretty much 50:50)- they are dedicating significant resource to getting their way.

Out of town superstores have decimated many town centres (Trowbridge, Stow-on-the-Wold, Brackley etc. etc.) and are responsible for many independent stores run by our neighbours. (One great moment at last night's meeting was when the agents were asked to give an example of a town who were delighted with their new store and its positive impact on their community! The agent looked like a guppy before saying "I'll get back to you on that.")

The reality is that the big high street retailers such as continue to make billions of pounds of profit (often by being located off-shore and dogging UK Corporation tax) and have performed well during the recession. As such they have an unfair competitive over town centre retailers paying less per square ft in rates than the independents. They are fuel hungry and profits rather than community focussed (staff washing cars and eating donuts to raise money for local charities - whilst admirable - is not the same thing.) A great exampled given last night was the fact that asparagus bedecking the shelves recently was from Spain - not down the road at Evesham!

And that's about the town's retailers working together to protect the customers they already have and ensuring the town is well looked after and well marketed too. They have to ready themselves so that if Sainsbury's open their store with a barrage of "special offers" i.e. Half Priced meat/books/children's clothes for four months they can weather the storm.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

If OCC own the old hospital land and Parker Knoll land, and if we do want a bigger supermarket and we want to keep it within the town centre, why not make Parker Knoll residental use and turn the hospital land over to commercial use?

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Ken

Thanks for your excellent post.

To underline your point about traffic coming in from places around. There are three thousand odd homes in Chippy. Sainsbury's expect 28,000 cars a week at their new store. Where on earth will they all come from?

After many years closely following the judgements of our planners, I am clear that they are far too subject to political pressures. They continually run scared of possible appeals from big companies (just as they did with Wimpey) It is clear from the statements which the Sainsbury representatives have been making at various meetings that WODC have already cut deals about the proposed supermarket. They have allowed a succession of developments in Chippy which are monstrous. They routinely ignore the Town Council's comments on plans. They have resolutely refused to get involved over discussing a Planning Brief for the old Hospital/Castle View site. They have refused to take into consideration the implications of the Air Pollution problem in Horsefair. They have made no provision for employment sites in the new Local Plan which includes 300 new homes. How do you think they are going to help?

My journalist friends tell me that our best hope of being heard is to create an almighty racket and draw national papers attention to the fact that in the Prime Ministers own back yard the idea that communities decide for themselves is proving yet another example of Big Society cobblers.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I see what you mean!
We do need everyone lined up and pointing in same direction.
Perhaps now the debate is moving on, an open forum is not the best place to discuss our tactics!
Look forward to the next meeting.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: JD
If OCC own the old hospital land and Parker Knoll land, and if we do want a bigger supermarket and we want to keep it within the town centre, why not make Parker Knoll residental use and turn the hospital land over to commercial use?




Probably a thought that has gone through many minds and indeed that would be relatively on the level and town access far better from the Castle View/Hospital site.... however its not far enough away from the town centre that one imagines Sainsbury's would like. Too close for competition. Its obvious... you have to think like them and think business like (I would do the same in their shoes) and post your position easily accessible outside of town. Its a no brainer and I would collect 80% of the surplus shoppers of those that still travel to Tesco/Morrissons and the like.

So no castle view and a developement of the same ilk of COOP's would never be on the cards by a player that wants to hold all the Aces!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

It doesn't matter how much floor space or parking spaces they have at the Co op, it is still too expensive for a weekly shop.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Ken reports,

‘Sainsbury's say they will keep their High Street store but this is very unlikely. As the Co-op admitted last night the Monopolies Commission might have something to say about that. They had to get rid of the same site after acquisition of Somerfield for that very reason’

The Co-op should also have admitted the only reason the Co-op had to get rid of ONE store because with both they would have had a monopoly in town, had there been another supermarket in competition it would not have happened.

Gerry reports,

‘Sainsbury's expect 28,000 cars a week at their new store. Where on earth will they all come from?
If that’s the case do you honestly believe not one of those will stop in town to buy something?

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

They won't be able to stop. The town will be permanently gridlocked!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Well... 'I love Sainsbury's' you are really missing the point arnt you? Why are you here? Why dont you live in Banbury to get your cheap shopping? This is a little town hardly bigger than a village and you want to extract its life on a whim to achieve a cheaper shopping basket?

If you lived in Chadlington with your parents... would you when you moved out buy your own place in Chadlington (if you could afford to) which has two shops albeit more pricey than COOP or Sainsbury's in Chippy? You would because of the village you love and perhaps there is an element who feel the same about Chippy that they love it as it is and dont want to see the heart ripped out of it?

Even if the odd car stopped of the 28k increase how many of the originals that stopped in the first place will just continue up the hill to get everything they want in one hit?

But the real point of that low estimate of 28k cars is the congestion and pollution and increased danger congestion gives to pedestrians and pollution to those living in the close viscinity of the tight roads in Chippy.

You probably dont care about that as long as you get your cheaper shopping basket because when you are born in a tunnel that view is your safe haven.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Last night's meeting was encouraging (thanks to those who organized it), but I'm still unsure about how to get involved to help with the next steps. Is somebody already organizing the next meeting? Is there an umbrella group?

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

If its arranged and advertised here then it should be solely a meeting of the people of Chipping Norton with Councillors of Chipping Norton and noone else... we dont need to ask any questions for dodgy answers anymore where forcast is the only rule... just get on in our own company to draw up an action plan and get some facts laid down that we can profer to the planners and indeed our MP.

By the way the FSB are aware of this after I contacted them about their campaign of 'Keep Trade Local' and they have belief in Ken Norman and are also awaiting a report direct from the FSB. However indeed a new meeting should be set up soon as Sainsbury's wont hang about!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: I Love Sainsbury's.
Amazing!

'James, Jo and Linda deserve our congratulations for organising it all.'

All three of them have lived in Chipping Norton for 10 minutes and already telling us how to run the town and spend our money.

75 eh! NIMBYS from Parker Circus who don't want it in their back yard and the rest Co-op supporters and shopkeepers deciding who we should spend our money with.

Perhaps the builders in the town should get together to stop other builders from working here.



No.... the builders all share and share alike and they are all relatively competitive against each other but an out of town store is not competitive at all. It hogs the trade and drives others out to improve its profits until the competition falls away and it can charge what it likes.

But what most on here dont see is the problems for the business men and women. They seem to feel that business people are of a different ilk to them but at the end of the day they its just really a job and they make jobs for others and pay for them to have 4 weeks holiday a year and then 8 bank holidays and they themselves are working when their workers are holidaying and are lucky if they get a fortnights holiday a year themselves... and all it is is to make an honest buck and pay my taxes and die just like the rest here but I'm not a different race but these are very austere times to business and cuts are having to be made, for, just the same as you who receive a salary!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

There has been plenty of talk here regarding prices. I for one do not think the co-op is too expensive. If they charged £1 for a tin of beans I would not buy them. All the staples seem fairly priced. What would be interesting to see is a price comparison chart, similar to the ones in the papers. For instance Tesco Stow, Tesco Banbury, Sainsburys Chippy, Sainsburys Witney etc.

It seems supermarkets are less than open with this info, you can find the base prices easily enough if you're geting food delivered but not the actual in store prices when it comes to smaller branches.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

"I want it cheaper. I have to drive to Banbury to get it cheaper."

"Why don't you move to Banbury, then?"

"What? I couldn't live there it's horrible. The traffic's a nightmare, there're loads of people... I want to live in a lovely town like Chipping Norton."

"But you'd like it to be more like Banbury?"

"Exactly, so I can get cheaper shopping and don't have to drive anywhere. I'll be happy to fight my way through the congestion and the hoards people. I'll also be happy to accept that my house price too will fall in direct proportion to the decline of the High Street - but hey I never use the shops anyway cos I'm always in Banbury - which I hate."

"But you'd like Chipping Norton to be more like Banbury?"

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I think all you objectors have too much money, you don't sem to understand that when you are on low income (not benefits just low wage)every penny has to be watched and if a new supermarket can provide lower priced goods then people with limited income will use it.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Jeremy.

I don’t like to be lectured by someone who’s family has made a good living out of Chipping Norton and now owns a good slice of High Street, all I see in your rant is someone who is more concerned in your own business rather than the needs of the population, pleading about having to pay wages and the problems for the business men and women as you put it, that doesn’t give you the right to prevent other businesses from opening just to line your pockets. As for empty shops you’re so worried about perhaps a bit more effort is needed to rent out the old Rawlins shop instead of objecting to competition or didn’t you declare that interest? As for your ‘Why don’t you live in Banbury to get your cheap shopping’ that’s childish and pathetic.

While you are on about Chadlington has it not passed you by that Chadlington is full of “Newcomers” who want to live the village life (spot the similarity) and as you say having priced out young people and yet couldn’t even manage enough support to keep ONE village pub open, and would rather shop at Sainsbury’s or Waitrose in Witney rather than Chippy and wouldn’t be seen dead in the Co-op or is that lost on you?

So please none of this ‘probably don’t care bit’, I care about some of the Chippy people who want the choice, the answer is simple Jeremy when it opens don’t use it. I have no desire to see any shops close but I do have the desire to see this town pull itself into the 21st century for the benefit of the people not just the shopkeepers, so no more lectures Jeremy I’m not in it to line my own pockets, if you don’t like it, you move to Banbury.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

An 'Out of Town' supermarket has be proven through various surveys to be very detremental to small towns, market towns and large villages. A larger Sainsbury than is already here is not progress but greed of multi million pound chains who may I say in the surveys they carried out to determine or not whether a larger supermarket here would be beneficial to their pockets did not include Chipping Norton only, the surrounding towns and villages, they are not at all interested in the town and have nothing to offer, the only things they will give us is 300 cars an hour more than those we already have passing through the town or down London road, those are their figures, further pollution in the town which is already highly polluted plud those three hundred cars an hour will not be stopping in the town, they will be driving in and out. If any business thins ,it will not affect me, they are wrong, it will affect you all. Any business losing only 10% of their takings a day will eventually have to lay staff off and eventually close, when one shop or business closes others will follow close behind, boarded up shops will affect the tourist trade and day trippers as they will not want to stop in a boarded up town, why should they? closed shops and businesses, no visitors, and the property market? that will suffer and the value of all our properties will devalue, no one will buy, estate agents will suffer where will all the vacant houses go? social housing! we have a wonderful town, our weekly market, our monthly market our little shops, perhaps not catering for all but, we do have Banbury and even! if Sainsbury's proposal went ahead, those who go to Banbury will still go, go why? for freedom, freedom of choice, what Sainsburys want is to take away that freedom and creatwe a monopoly, Sainsbury is here already, if you wish to shop there.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Well said, people must see the reality of the proposal and, what about those people who have purchased properties at Parker Circus I am sure they are not to happy about it either

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Are you going to walk to Sainsburys, I think not! do you go to Banbury now? if so you will continue to do so, if not you have a Sainsbury now.

As a Chippy Oldie! do you want to see bussiness laying off staff, bussiness you will have known for years closing down, the wednesday market dissapearing, the monthly market dissappearing, unemployment of local people, well that is exactely what will happen if the proposal goes ahead,

It is your town do you want to preserve it or not, if not as a Chiipy Oldie you obviously do not think much of your town!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

thank you you have strenghtened my argument even with a Sainsbury here people go to Banbury and they will continue to do so if the proposal goes ahead

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

they can always go to Sainsbury, it is already here

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

And, Brackley is near Banbury!!!!!!!!Brackley had a weekly market the length of the high street, since the out of town supermarkets, ona Friday, there are three stall, no there are'nt any shops, they are all boarded up except 8, some have been boarded up for over three years, have you seen the prices of houses in Brackly?? if that is the sort of town you want to leave in let the proposal go ahead.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Yes it is hopefully to begin in August and, anyone who does not want to shop there they can go to the Sainsbury that we already have!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

You actually have no idea at all, if you think anything of your town you would not speak or write as you are. It is not whether Sainsbury is better or worse than the Coop or who will or will not still go to shop in Banbury, the question is, what impact an out of town (which it is as the majority can not walk to it or one shop to another) Supermarket will have on Chipping Norton, if you want facts and figures to prove what will happen I can give them, if you do not care about Chipping Norton, it is good some people do.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

It's only just occurred to me that no one has mentioned that we already have 5 charity shops in town, and as was pointed out, Rawlins has been empty a long time.

Seriously, this is not just about what impact Sainsburys may or may not have.....the town needs better marketing regardless...

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

When the Co-op and Somerfield started selling bread and fresh vegetables we lost our local bakers and greengrocers!No-one seemed to help these small shops then. Chippy has always been a Co-op town - perhaps it is time to move on.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

We have 2 butcher that are still doing very well even when both are within 200 yards from the supermarkets!

Much of the problem with Chippy is that we have swapped our antique shops for charity shops.

If a good fish monger opened or a greengrocer I think they would do well here!

Times have changed, People don't just buy cheap all the time they also look for quality, If you go to the butchers and buy bacon hand cut it doesn't shrink to nothing like the supermarket bacon and doesn't cost much more,In fact weight for weight when cooked it works out much better value.

If we keep putting shops full of hand bags in the town what do expect? You only need so many hand bags!

Rawlins is empty beacause the owner doesn't want to rent it out.

Industry wise, At the moment their are 3 empty units at worcester road ind est, If they build more could they fill them?

At least sainsburys are guaranteed to create some jobs!
Wouldn't 60 jobs be better than some empty units on the site?

How would the sainsburys affect the town centre shops when they wouldn't be selling many of the items that they sell in their shops anyway?

They will sell childrens clothing probably, Great we have to go out of town to buy them anyway!
The stationary etc will be a bonus as WH smith have ripped us off for long enough now, I once had to pay over £30 for a computer mouse in there as I needed it in a hurry and that was the cheapest!
You can buy one for a fiver in any other town!
Also the Cd's/DVD's etc are well over priced in there over double the price of other shops!

Most of the other shops are estate agents anyway and I'm sure they won't be selling houses!!

I appreciate that the traffic isn't ideal but there are alot of positives to the shop as well!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I think being a businessman in the town really I should take a back seat from the fray. This isn't me... I'm normally quite easy going and not the sort to be drawn into conflict. Perhaps sitting behind this screen makes me ... not me.

I quite understand about budgeting like Daisy suggests and know of it myself when I was newly married, a farm worker and little spare income. Lived in Salford and times were tough.

What will be will be with the town. Personally I'm a traditionalist that thinks if a wheel aint broken then I dont aim to mend it but perhaps the wheel hasn't been formed for some of us yet?

We at the newsagents, as much offer a service as anything and dont try to pull any punches. The place is in need of refurbishment and as you know the facade is in dire need of major repair and that is our next objective. The Rawlins shop is not essentially connected to the shop but Graham has set it aside in case we have to move in there (should problems arise) whilst works are carried out on the building.

This does take an inordinate amount of money and in these times is quite a drain on resources aswell as income earnt over and above all our costs.

So I apologise if I went a little over the top and tried to protect the town centre for the future as it is the thriving market town centre that does unfortunately sometimes cost you a little more (not always) but it helps toward the ongoing restoration of the listed buildings throughout the town.

Whichever way... the future will tell and perhaps shops like ours ( where we do try to service the town in a reasonable capacity and pretty hard work it can be!) will die a death? My eldest son has already got eyes on a multilevel nightclub with the party falling out on to the Rope Walk for Al Fresco Drinking and music festivals (like Covent gardren) as a better use for our shop. Frontage that opens wide to the High Street.

Watch this space eh?

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Funny you should say that. I'm aware that today, the District Council and Town Council are submitting a proposal to the Government to become a 'front runner' in preparing a Chippy Neighbourhood Plan (a kind of successor to the 2003 Appraisal but with planning teeth).
If successful, local people will have the ability to quickly work out how the future of the town is planned, including whether or not Sainsbury's proposals will work (I strongly suspect they won't). The Plan will be subject to a local referendum before the District Council adopts it.
I'd hesitate to use the normal Govt buzzwords, but this is about us properly informing ourselves, being aware of the trade-offs and then taking control of our own destiny.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Oh my gawd......not another plan!

Read about Neighbourhood Plans

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Jeremy,
I use your shop regularly and I don't see any reason that if a new sainsburys is built that that would change.
As I said on my previous post, Shops that sell things that we really need should be unaffected.

I can also say that I have never noticed the decor of your shop, Is it run down?
I am usually too busy looking for what I need and usually finding it at a reasonable price.

Although the night club sounds pretty good

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Is it only seven? I hadn't counted but to be honest in that area is is not worth worrying about competition and to diversify accordingly. I mean even if it was a level playing field things would be rather fairer and 'may the best man win' but then the newspapers collude with Sainsbury's, WHSmith and CO-OP in offering products free when you shop at their store... so there is very little hope for the lowly newsagent to make an honest easy buck.... and then tobacco... well yes we are very competitive and cheapest in town. Though in these days of left wing smoke controls perhaps its not something you shout from the rooftops? Though you know (getting back to the competition) it can be a little irritating when you cannot find what the person is looking for and suggest trying Smiths etc and they say that they have already tried there or you find what the customer wants or orders something for them and they mutter "smiths didnt have what I was looking for" etc... you get to live with it... costs nothing to smile it off

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Ah but it amazes me what you can find in your shop. The other day I went in on the off chance and was told by a member of your staff 'Oh we dont sell those' then Gloria said excuse me I can show you some so I bought 3. So well done that lady!!!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

‘Is it only seven? I hadn't counted’, not knowing your competition Jeremy, honestly OOT Sainsbury’s could never compete with the diversity offered by the town centre shops. Perhaps instead of wasting time and energy fighting Sainsbury’s, capitalise on their efforts, if they believe they will secure thousands of customers then try tempting them into town.

You have in your midst the town supremo Ken Norman promotion is his field, he could be employed by the shopkeepers to promote the shops, possibly organise monthly circulars a special offers promotions much like the supermarkets do now. This would be right up his High Street speak to him now.

However I suspect if the shopkeepers show as much appreciation to their customers as they do on Victorian Evening nothing will happen.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

look your going to have to accept CN is not so posh anymore and embrace a sainsburys, its not like marks want to open a branch in CN

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: LOL
look your going to have to accept CN is not so posh anymore and embrace a sainsburys, its not like marks want to open a branch in CN



.... you not from around here??.... we've embraced one for quite a while.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

not embrace a large sainsburys for fear of competition thro. maybe cn needs to join the 21st century if it wants cn to thrive......

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I noticed that Sainsbury's is one of the sponsors for tomorrow's festival. The names I didn't see there were, Boots, WH Smith, CO-OP and Dorothy Perkins - all big high street names and long established in Chippy, but no sponsorship.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Those in favour of a new Sainsburys appear to be very short sighted. They are motivated merely by price and perceived convenience. The real issues of road congestion, air pollution, road dangers and damage to the character of the town are ignored. These are the real issues.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Reposted here by the Webmaster. We don't want lots of different threads about Sainsburys


say no to s new sainsbury! As a business owner in town and a parent of a child at Holy Trinity, i have grave concerns about what effect a superstore will have on the town and immediate vicinity. Increased traffic...upwards of 300 vehicles per hour in and out of the site from around 3o per hour bringing increased traffic congestion and pollution affecting not only the residents of the Trinity estate, the hospital and school, increase in crime, (stastistics have shown from another midlands town where a major supermarket got its foot in the door in similar circunstances that crime in the area rose),less shopping in the town itself,(are you really going to fill up your cars with fresh and frozen goods, then go into the town centre, try to find a parking space and spend your money locally?) therfore killing off already struggling shops and creating a town centre of boarded up shop fronts (less rates payable to wodc) and mainly charity shops in the high st...i could go on. Sainsbury may be offering carrots such as employment (if businesses close in the town, loss of jobs will outweigh the jobs sainsbury will offer),and incentives to the council etc, but it will kill off the unique nature if our town and destroy livelihoods. come on people, think beyond the convenience of a local superstore and look longer term at the effect this proposal will have on chippy.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

I think with all these cars we are expecting that I may open a car wash!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Since when did a lack of facts spoil a good argument. However there is a report by Southampton University which was published in 2010 covering thier analysis of 6 towns where edge of town supermarkets were built around 2007.
http://www.riben.org.uk/report/
The conclusions are generally positive but remeber it was commisioned by Tescos. It concentrates on increased convenience for consumers and effect on town centre businesses and does not discuss disruption etc.
Any plan to repulse Sainsbury will clearly need to deal with their evidence and maybe a good idea to visit the towns studied for an update.
Vouchers worth £3k to be spent at the university are available to small businesses for help on business development.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

stow on the wold had a tesco store built many years ago, and it has not killed the town centre, which is always busy, surely its better for people to spend within the chippy area than take there money to banbury, when shopping in sainsburys or tesco in banbury you see many people who say that even when paying for fuel it is still cheaper to shop in banbury. the jobs would give a boast to the local area.we need to look to the future, the houses keep being built but there are no jobs in the area most shops that close within the town seem to be taken over by antiques. that does not provide jobs for anybody. the town needs to move on.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

i think that a new Sainsbury's would be great (would have rather have a asda) in town as it would cut down on co2 gases because you would have one great big lorry bring the food in to town rather than having 100 cars going to banbury for the same amount. plus shopping on line would also cut down the gases as well because the delivery would be from Chippy instead of Banbury. as for shops closing alot of that is down to the internet offering cheaper prices and free delivery, you can buy things from whsmith online cheaper than instore then have it delivered to the store for free. so should the internet be turned off in chippy to save jobs, and thats not giong to happen is it,as then the people of the town would have to talk to each other or go to open meetings about things instead of emails/forums.

lets just ask Mystic Meg from the Sun what the future holds.(as they proberly have tapped the phones to the WODC already)

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Quote: looking to the future
stow on the wold had a tesco store built many years ago, and it has not killed the town centre, which is always busy, surely its better for people to spend within the chippy area than take there money to banbury, when shopping in sainsburys or tesco in banbury you see many people who say that even when paying for fuel it is still cheaper to shop in banbury. the jobs would give a boast to the local area.we need to look to the future, the houses keep being built but there are no jobs in the area most shops that close within the town seem to be taken over by antiques. that does not provide jobs for anybody. the town needs to move on.


Sorry, maybe I can't see them but where are the grocery/hardware etc. shops in Stowe?
Town Centre always busy? yes,with tourists going to endless antique/gift/charity shops and tea rooms !
- oh and the Tesco in Stowe does not stock any budget brands - too posh an area. -Watch this space !

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

went to Kidlington today very busy on high street and they have got a Co-op and a Tesco's in town plus a large Sainsburys just out side the town, just like we would. i see no problem with a large sainsburys

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

There are no problems only solutions

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Check out Chippy before Chippy checks out!
With the threat of Sainsbury’s building an out of town supermarket, we have to ask ourselves some questions.
Do we want it?
Do we need it?
There will be a lot of us out there that think yes we would like it and actually it would be easier and convenient and we go out of town anyway so what differents does it make.
But please take some time to read this and think for a while.
It is a proven fact that out of town supermarkets destroy and kill small towns and market towns, we have not been able to find one town or market town that this is not the case, all over the country. The list of towns that have been destroyed is endless, and Sainsbury’s have not been able to give us evidence of one town that this is not so.
Now you may say, I do not need Chipping Norton, I don’t use it any way but again please think on. The loss of the town or Ghost town as they are being called will affect more than what we think, the whole info structure will be affected It is not only local traders that will die, local services and charities will struggle. Local schools, churches, play groups, clubs, local beer festivals, football ,rugby clubs and events, the list goes on, all of which rely on us for fund raising and events. Local traders and services support all of this through giving their time, putting up posters, donating money and prizes and generally supporting any events that may be going on.
You may also think I don’t use any of these, but it will affect local employment here and in out lying villages because the circulation of local money for our local economy is no longer there. We all use Chipping Norton in some way.
It is a proven fact that large out of town supermarkets suck all our money out of our pockets and deliver it back to Head office leaving none for the local economy.
Employment: It is also a big fact that these supermarkets do not create more employment it is a fact that they actual create and give us less employment than the town provides before they move in and cause the town to die. Again who will be affected: Accountants, Banks, shops (not just the independents Boots and W H Smiths will also be affected and they will not hang around to lose money) Window cleaners, Cafes. Pubs, restaurants , fish and chip shops, charity shops, Bakers, Butchers, local camp sites (the tourist don’t want to come to a Ghost Town) Hotels bed and breakfasts, local suppliers, other suppliers not local who supply all the local trades and this list is endless too.
Pollution: we are the highest polluted town in Oxfordshire the big black box on the high street tells us this and yet if we get a large out of town supermarket the traffic will increase by 300 cars an hour, most of which will travel along the High St and that is just an estimate which does not include delivery vehicles.
Additional Noise and congestion. In all the towns that out of town supermarkets have been built the level of Noise from traffic people and things like refrigeration units have increased these places are open to 10-11 o’clock 24 hours in some towns imagine the noise and disruption this causes not to mention the congestion in the High St. Ask yourself this will you want to come into Chipping Norton if the traffic is always congested?
Please think to the future, if all we had were the large Supermarkets they would have the monopoly, eroding our choice and of course no need to keep prices low because there would be no other competition!

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

Well done, for such a sensible and intelligent post. I agree with everything you have said and hope that the supermarket does not go a head. I am a young mum, on a low budget with a family to feed and understand that big supermarkets give more choice at a lower price. However I think very highly of Chippy and have chosen to live here because of what the town has to offer. I have also seen what happens when big supermarkets crop up on the edge of towns and they do have a major impact. I really don't want to see shops close changing the identity of the town.

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

An interesting (recent)article on this subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/supermarkets-kill-free-markets-communities

Re: "Say No To Sainsburys"

http://www.keeplouthspecial.org.uk/supermarkets.php

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