THE VOICE CONNECTION
SOUND OFF

Welcome to The Voice Connection Sound Off; a forum for users of books like Raise Your Voice, Melody to Madness, The Ultimate Breathing Workout, and Unleash Your Creative Mindset, as well as a place for Vendera Vocal Academy members to interact.

This message board was created so that singers could come together and "sound off" to help support each other during vocal development and the creative process of unleashing the creative spark that occurs when writing and producing music. Currently, myself and vocal coaches Ben Valen, Ray West, and Ryan Wall are here to respond periodicially to your questions, with new vocal coaches coming soon. But, feel free to help each other too:)

This board is here for you to ask questions about my and my fellow coach's books, videos, and MP3 programs, as well as offer others help with our vocal techniques. You may also post videos of yourself and your band to share your music and ask for critiques.

Please refrain from negative comments, profanities, spamming, and inappropriate criticisms of vocal methodologies, vocal coaches, and singers. All negative posts will be deleted and subject to banning without question. I will not respond to negative posts, because, as Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” With that said, positive criticism is welcome because that is how you'll grow as a singer during the training process.


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Power Push

Hey Jaime
i was reading about the Power Push today, and i mentioned the technique to my teacher. Since i started, shes been teaching me to pull in with my lower stomach muscles, not tensing them, just pulling them as far inwards as i can as if im trying to make them reach my spine.... and i mentioned the power push to her and she seemed a little confused by it. She said the idea of what shes teaching me is to get the stomach to push and flatten the diaphragm which gives good support, and when i said that the power push releases the tension on the diaphragm, she was a little puzzled. I explained a bit more, but she just said that you probably mean to same thing as shes teaching, but you are just using different visualisation. but i dont think thats the case. Is the technique shes teaching me just as effective? or do you think i would be better off using the power push? I am just starting the RYV 7 week program tonight, so this is gonna be the first time im going to be using your techniques therefore i have nt tried the power push yet.
Thanks
Lee

Re: Power Push

I don't want to degrade your teacher or change what you are doing, but I don't believe in pulling in the stomach. When I focus the pressure downwards, it keeps the diaphragm down and adds the volume I need. I used this technique to outlast about 20n opera singers in New York. I screamed nfor 8 hours, then got up the next morning and did a television show, and I was fine. It works for me and many top rock singers I know. Sucking the stomach in, in my opinion, puts unnecessary tension on the diaphragm. But, make your own decision.

JV

Re: Power Push


I dont know what to do now...lol
Ill try use both techniques until they come naturally, and then decide which one is better for me.
Im finding what shes teaching me to be quite helpful tbh, but when i get the hang of the power push, it may benefit me even more....but considering shes an opera singer, and you whipped 20 of them without a problem using the power push technique, id say thats pretty strong evidence that the power push is more effective
Thanks Jaime
Lee

Re: Power Push

Lee,

I haven't had a teacher tell me to pull my stomach in -ever-, nore have I spoken with a vocalist that actually does it... I know a few who say that might suggest it, but I notice they don't do it themselves.

I'd give what she's suggesting a try, if you feel like it... if nothing else, it'll show you a different idea and help you understand where other singers are coming from.

Personally, my money is on the Power Push, though ;).

Re: Power Push

Lee,

I'm going to agree with Jaime. I'm not a vocal coach, nor have I ever even been to one, but I'm gonna tell you my problems with the methodology which she has presented you.

1. As you've read in RYV, Jaime gives a ton of information about breathing. Keeping the floating ribs expanded allows for a fuller tone and more volume. The Power Push and expanded ribs go hand in hand.

2. If she's telling you to suck your stomach in, the only place left to store your inhaled air is in the chest. You can only achieve 1/3 of your lung capacity when chest breathing. The problem with storing air in the top of your lungs is that you'll get the sensation that you're COMPLETELY full of air, and you can't even really talk. Have you ever tried completely filling up your lungs to the max, and then talking? It sounds strained, and the only thing you feel like you can do is just blow it all out.

3. It seems like pulling your stomach in is only going to give your abs and intercostals an inverse workout, if any at all. The expansion is what lets them work their magic, and give you the necessary burn.

4. I know you're just starting your RYV program, and it took me a while to get used to the Power Push as part of my natural regiment, so I'm gonna give you a tip that allows you to feel the necessary sensation of the Push. Start by quietly hissing. "Sssss." Then swell the hiss as loud as you can. You'll feel your insides kinda push down, like when you're sitting on the throne. This sensation is what you're looking for. After practicing this exercise for a short while, you'll figure out how to do the Push manually. And what I mean by "manually" is that you won't have to hiss every time you activate this push.

Honestly, bro, it seems like her methods will prove to be counter-productive in the long run. I've just recently learned how to do the death metal type screams (even though I'm not a huge fan of it) and I'm telling you first hand that it can't be done properly w/o the Push. I also sing a lot of TOOL, which requires me to sustain some pretty damn long notes. They're a HELL of a lot easier to do when I use the Push and keep my ribs expanded. You don't need to completely fill up your lungs, just fill up your belly. Yeah, you'll have that little Bhudda thing going on while you're doing it, but it's worth it to be able to perform these things correctly.

I'm not gonna tell you what to do, but I think simple physics points out that Jaime's method is by far the most valid. However, he's right. Choose whichever one you like, and please keep us posted on your progress.

Re: Power Push

Thanks guys for your advice
Yeh the biology behind her method is opposite, be pulling the lower stomach in, she says im creating enough tension on my diaphragm to make it flat and get good support... Like is said, it has been helping me alot, its stopped alot of strain, because when i cmoe to a high and loud part, i just pull my stomach in as much as i can on that particular note, and my voice just flies to the note without n e strain...
I dont think its forcing to much breath pressure b doing that, although i wouldnt really know.
She didnt like the idea of the inhalation sensation either, but i know that the inhalation sensation is a definite must do, and its working really well for me.
She did recommend that i dont read RYV anymore so i dont get confused :P but thats not gonna happen, im gonna find the best technique to suite me through trial, whether its her technique or Jaimes....
But Jaimes does make more sense....
The only think im having difficulty with is Resonance...i cant focus it properly....but ill get it
Cheers n e way guys
Lee

Re: Power Push

Well, for her to recommentd not to read RYV is enough for to to evaluate her as a poor coach. Sorry I had to say that, but a realy professional coach WITHOUT the cloassical ego would actually take a look at the scenario and give it a go. As far as the inhalation sensation, someone recently sent me a big article on the Bel Canto method where it points out that they believe that you are singing on an "in-breath" Bel Canto is one classical method. If she works for you and your voice is improving, by all means go full force. However, the sucking in of the stomach method is not going to give you the power and support you desire, and not utilizing the inhalation sensation will gauarnatee that you won't beat an RYV user in a note sustaining contest;)

JV

Re: Re: Power Push

Does this inhalation sensation take place on the in-breath or the out-breath, Jaime?

Re: Power Push

yeh i knew that would hit a soar spot...lol
Theres obviously noway im gonna stop reading it
I think ill give it about 2 months of trying RYV and her technique, and ill see if theres still any point in paying for her lessons.
yeh the inhalation sensation helps loads, especially on my full voice about my break point. Because i find that the high full voice uses more of my air over any other of the singing styles, which means im obviously pushing loads of air through. I have lost that upper range in full voice once or twice becos of overblowing my chords....but with the inhalation sensation....it feels so controlled and i kno its only going to get better as it comes more natural to me (cos im still having to think about it at the moment)
Anyway thanks again Jaime
Lee

Re: Power Push

On the out breath. You will eventually feel as if the air is being inhaled as you sing.

JV

Re: Re: Power Push

Ok, I'm trying it, and I just feel my stomach going in and my chest going out. Is that what you mean?

Re: Power Push

No not at all. Breathe the way to book tells you and then just "visualize" the breath coming in. It is not anything that you have to physically change, it is more of an internal sensation. "Feel" as if you are inhaling into the lungs as you are singing. Don't physically change anything, just get that same feeling you have when you inhale.

JV

Re: Power Push

*starts to make a pot joke, but wisely reconsiders*

Okay, my only problem (and I just read your book from cover to cover (so to speak), is that I can't figure out how to push "straight down". It's more like "pushing in".

I remember, in my early 20's, when I would watch hair metal singers on TV, and make note of how they stood, and it always looked like they were pulling their stomachs in and bending their knees, almost squatting.. but with one foot in front of the other, as in a martial arts stance. I remember mimicking them when I sang Korn and Marilyn Manson songs playing on my walkman, (my neighbors on all sides must have loved me, as I lived in an apartment) and I found that I could get a lot of power my my voice that way. Please tell me I was doing something right!

(also, don't forget that I've been studying the Melissa Cross method.)

Re: Power Push

tbh jaime, im still a bit confused about the stomach going down? it doesnt really feel like its going down to me....just feels like its tensing....
Is that still right though? im just tensing my muscles as if i was trying to pee yeh?

Re: Power Push

Lee,

Not to be gross but it is the same feeling as pushing when you are ataking a major dump or probably when a woman is pushing out a baby.

Re: Power Push

right yeh i thought so, just didnt really wanna say it like that....lol....glad someone else said it instead though....
thanks for the help
I think this technique should have an age limit though....I think when i reach ean elderly age i wont be using it :P

Re: Power Push

Its ok as long as you are wearing your depends, right jaime????? hehehehe just kidding!

Re: Power Push

I think of it as more like the feeling you get when you cough. The dump mental pic scares me.