THE VOICE CONNECTION
SOUND OFF

Welcome to The Voice Connection Sound Off; a forum for users of books like Raise Your Voice, Melody to Madness, The Ultimate Breathing Workout, and Unleash Your Creative Mindset, as well as a place for Vendera Vocal Academy members to interact.

This message board was created so that singers could come together and "sound off" to help support each other during vocal development and the creative process of unleashing the creative spark that occurs when writing and producing music. Currently, myself and vocal coaches Ben Valen, Ray West, and Ryan Wall are here to respond periodicially to your questions, with new vocal coaches coming soon. But, feel free to help each other too:)

This board is here for you to ask questions about my and my fellow coach's books, videos, and MP3 programs, as well as offer others help with our vocal techniques. You may also post videos of yourself and your band to share your music and ask for critiques.

Please refrain from negative comments, profanities, spamming, and inappropriate criticisms of vocal methodologies, vocal coaches, and singers. All negative posts will be deleted and subject to banning without question. I will not respond to negative posts, because, as Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” With that said, positive criticism is welcome because that is how you'll grow as a singer during the training process.


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Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

"""Today I practiced for 5 hours on screams/grit. Yesterday for about 3 hours and the day before for 2 hours."""
Man, I listened to the screams and they are awesome. How many total hours had you worked on your screams before making that audio? Do you have a rough guess? I know it´s been a year since posting that audio, but if you count total hours you should more exactly remember :D And where are you now on screaming? Anyway it´s very motivating for me.
As far as me is concerned I do grit work just after other lipp bubble warmup after transcending tone. and it takes an hour to go from dawn to the highest note. I do low grit, then same in the middle and same principle applied in hights except I start with IE and then go for IA. Today is going to be my 20th hour and I seem to get the some gains in my training voice in grit after initial hardship to produce a gritty sound.
What excercises do you do?
So you say it is OK to go for even more hours if your voice get adapted to hard work? I´m very curious about your answer

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Alex 123
"""Today I practiced for 5 hours on screams/grit. Yesterday for about 3 hours and the day before for 2 hours."""
Man, I listened to the screams and they are awesome. How many total hours had you worked on your screams before making that audio? Do you have a rough guess? I know it´s been a year since posting that audio, but if you count total hours you should more exactly remember :D And where are you now on screaming? Anyway it´s very motivating for me.
As far as me is concerned I do grit work just after other lipp bubble warmup after transcending tone. and it takes an hour to go from dawn to the highest note. I do low grit, then same in the middle and same principle applied in hights except I start with IE and then go for IA. Today is going to be my 20th hour and I seem to get the some gains in my training voice in grit after initial hardship to produce a gritty sound.
What excercises do you do?
So you say it is OK to go for even more hours if your voice get adapted to hard work? I´m very curious about your answer


Ah man this is kind of embarrassing to look back on.

I actually stopped practicing screams mainly and decided to work out my chest voice so I could sing tenor or tenorish stuff. My main exercises are building up strength and tone in my low, then upper high, and then practicing pushing the ceiling of my chest.

It shouldn't feel like 'hardship' when you do grit. You get fatigued and frustrated, but that's mostly mental.

It took like a week for me to get grit, the first one I got was the 'deathmetal'. I couldn't do lip bubbles or chewbaca until I got

Yeah man I go for hours and hours and hours doing ridiculously strenuous stuff... even nonstop improving with screams, grit, belting--for over an hour or so. Lol depends on how much energy the music is feeding me.

My best advice would be to not measure progress in hours but weeks and months.

I'll put up a new chest voice progress thread:

http://pub11.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=879185519&frmid=26&msgid=1132347&cmd=show

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Chris, good to hear from you, meantime it has passed couple months. It took me 10 sessions to get the grit. Now it´s gonna be my 70th session. I too do a session for several hours. I have seen fast results. however I have been sufferring from constant mucus buildup on my epiglottis and throat. I feel almost a constant need to clear my throat. And this issue has always been present in my voice. Now as screaming has progressed I feel my voice is more scratchy when excess mucus is present. this may be due to sinus issuue, silent reflux or even candida, for which I´m going to launch attack with many different things. I flush my sinuses 2 times a day on average but it helps only partially. I have couple questions for you again. Do you think that learning new screams for example false cord or fry scream helps to counterattack mucus buildup and remove it faster. I might be soon able to start with these techniques. As I watched couple of tutorials. I mean if you dedicate several hundred sessions to those screams, could you be at the end able to remove that mucus EFFECTIVELY? What I have found is that when mucus is really buildup it blocks somehow the proper distortion of scream and it get distorted wrong way producing more scratchy sound, also mucus blocks right function of cords so that makes me push tighter. I do not eat anything that google says that creates mucus, so as diary, sweats and meat. I have got negative alergy test and no signs of bacteria cultivation in throat mouth and so on. Also if you have some good tip on how to remove mucus fast give me it. I hope you say, that mastering false cord or fry scream does something with effective mucus removal. thanks. I forget to mention I drink lots of ACV a herbal teas.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Only drink half a cup (or a quater) of vinegar per day on an empty stomach (I do it before first meal) and it will clear up mucus after a few weeks. If you drink more it will cause a lot of mucus.

Also clearing you sinuses generates mucus. Would only do that like once a month or less on a day you're not going to sing. You need to use high quality boiled water that's been cooled to do this too or you can get amoebas that enter your brain and kill you (sounds nuts but it's true). I used to do this all the time, especially when I'm sick but drinking daily vinegar works better. Only problem is if you stop drinking it you have to bee on it a while to get the mucus to go away.

If you do your grits and screams forced it will also cause your throat to dry and chafe, generating mucus, especially the chunky kind.

Singing is 99% mental conditioning and muscle coordination.

I would stay away from anything syrupy and just drink heated water (below burning/boiling but very warm). The main thing that messes up my voice is Lemonade. Stay away from citrus/juicy stuff too if you're going to sing.

Other than that some people have gluten and dairy allergies, I don't have issues with either. Some herbal teas mess with your hormones and make you sweat, might want to stay away from those if you're singing too.

========================

The best way to remove mucus is to swallow and if you're drinking warmed water and your daily vinegar at the right amount you should be fine.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

man thanks for a response, you you´re saying that only half of a cup in the morning, that makes like half of a tablespoon of vinegar. right? these days I just dont understand why I woke up with no voice at all, caused by post nasal drip right after I wake up, it fills up my cords and then in the evening gets loosened a bit. This problem has appeared since changes in my scream started to be significant, and screams got more developed. so it seems that that extra space in my false cords gets filled with mucus constantly, guys in band love my screams, but only because rehersal is always in evening. But throughout the day I feel miserable. the mucus is so sticken in my cords that it just cannot go away, it seriously blocks me from singing, two days ago I had a two hour scream excercise, which I barely started, after hour and half I had to go home and was spitting mucus for 10 minutes. In past I was to many doctors and they found nothing except sinus above my right eye filled with mucus, so I know I have sinusitis for sure. my products will arive in a couple of days,I hope that they will work, because according to my own research you can hardly get more effective combination of products against candida and I also will have incredibly tough diet regim. But I wish to get rid of that mucus so hard like anything else in the world. I hope that higher power will work for me. Also another thing I found causing the problem may be mycoplasma pneumoniae, which is very vicious smallest organism in human body, which may trigger post nasal drip, constant phleghm and sinusitis too. I realized that my problem is very serious and seriously wrecking life quality. someone may still think that constant throat clearing is not so bad but, hell yea it is and for singers it is a very serious threat to his carier.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz


alex 123
man thanks for a response, you you´re saying that only half of a cup in the morning, that makes like half of a tablespoon of vinegar. right? these days I just dont understand why I woke up with no voice at all, caused by post nasal drip right after I wake up, it fills up my cords and then in the evening gets loosened a bit. This problem has appeared since changes in my scream started to be significant, and screams got more developed. so it seems that that extra space in my false cords gets filled with mucus constantly, guys in band love my screams, but only because rehersal is always in evening. But throughout the day I feel miserable. the mucus is so sticken in my cords that it just cannot go away, it seriously blocks me from singing, two days ago I had a two hour scream excercise, which I barely started, after hour and half I had to go home and was spitting mucus for 10 minutes. In past I was to many doctors and they found nothing except sinus above my right eye filled with mucus, so I know I have sinusitis for sure. my products will arive in a couple of days,I hope that they will work, because according to my own research you can hardly get more effective combination of products against candida and I also will have incredibly tough diet regim. But I wish to get rid of that mucus so hard like anything else in the world. I hope that higher power will work for me. Also another thing I found causing the problem may be mycoplasma pneumoniae, which is very vicious smallest organism in human body, which may trigger post nasal drip, constant phleghm and sinusitis too. I realized that my problem is very serious and seriously wrecking life quality. someone may still think that constant throat clearing is not so bad but, hell yea it is and for singers it is a very serious threat to his carier.


I take like a quarter or half a cup of white vinegar (or ac or rice or whatever you have) straight with a straw so it doesn't dissolve your teeth. I don't mix it with anything since it seems to work better without it. It's also easier to drink if you refrigerate it. Make sure to wash your mouth out and drink warm water after.

I think you might be doing your screams wrong. What you should feel in your voice is fatigue from worn out muscles--mainly the ones from high notes under your chin.

NEVER just do screams. Practice all the types of grit and sing too so you always have proper placement. Try singing for two hours--if you are tired/having serious problems than it sounds like you need to fix your placement/practice more.

Screams are really just a type of grit which is really just breathy/falsettoish coordination with your pallet and throat.

Getting good with lots of different grits will naturally make all your screams more controlled, versatile, stronger, and just plain better.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Well I´m convinced I do screams right, before then like a month or two ago I was getting fatique from workout. Now I still do get but It seems not that big, seems only little. I know it becasue when I was with my new and first band (Friday whiskey), I did like 2 hour workout and then two hour break and then I went to rehersal and I was able to sing for 2 hours or even more. I had restricted voice after such a long time, but rasp/grit/scream helps a lot with it, and had not serious problems or more serious. This happened 2 times and this has been still my voice under much phleghm. I know for sure that I do screams right, because I have seen huge gains and lately opening up for new types of screams just slightly, but though. I have not done other than scream excercises for like 20 sessions, but I will return to it supposedly soon and work on clean voice. I have been lately doing screams with kind oflike more falsetto, it is not that louder but seems like softer kind of mid/ high scream. This seems like I´m getting deeper to the scream. I´m still fascinated by my progress and by screams, because I started not being able to do a single grit/scream not at all. But the goal is to achieve a proper transition between clean and gritty/raspy screamy voice. And I feel transition is the big thing. Thanks for advice with ACV, seems like I try to make up vinegar at home according to recipe.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Lots of people (including big name stars) think they are screaming/singing right--even for years--and then 'all of a sudden' they start having major problems, ie getting nodules. This is especially true when they get this mindset that they are going to start 'taking it to the next level'.

If you're not having problems don't worry. If you are having small problems that are growing then something is probably wrong with the technique.

There's no other advice beyond that.

Re: High Scream & Death Metal Grit Crits Plz

Christopher_JC
Lots of people (including big name stars) think they are screaming/singing right--even for years--and then 'all of a sudden' they start having major problems, ie getting nodules. This is especially true when they get this mindset that they are going to start 'taking it to the next level'.

If you're not having problems don't worry. If you are having small problems that are growing then something is probably wrong with the technique.

There's no other advice beyond that.



well, I think if the singer wants screaming take in the higher level he must train, and not go for pushing harder above the limit, this can cause problems in long term. But as long I do warmup and warmdown, I do screams according to my comfort zone, if my voice starts to wear, I know when it´s enough. I happen to experience the oppositte of what I experienced in past. In like two month ago, I couldnt sing properly with full clean voice after grit/ screaming excercise. another words said I could sing but with restricted voice, now surprisingly what happens during session is I do the same or even higher amount of screams in less time, my voice gets cleaner and fuller in the middle of session, I start on heights and then I sing with clean voice or raspy with no hardship at all. this is a good sign. It seems like screams clear out the mucus left behind after nasal flushes and post nasal drip that bothers me in morning and after almost each meal. I found something interesting I feel making very slow transition into another kind of scream (false cord scream) There are actually 4 types of screams, fry scream, false cord scream, death scream, and "the rock scream" (for example Bulletboys, Sebastian Bach in younger age) what teaches Jaime, in his low grit/mid/high scream excercises. the big issue for me is the proper transiton because I want to develop softer kind of scream that allows perfect transition between 100% clean and 100% gritty/raspy. I also plan to work hard on clean voice and power soon in a couple of weeks before hitting the studio.