Hi all, just got RYV. I'm mid-30s been singing on and off(mostly in the house) only backing vocals for real as i am a guitarist.

I am a massive Iron Maiden fan so my favourite vocalist is Bruce, other favorites are Lord Coverdale, Halford, Tate, Kiske etc.

I actually play guitar in a maiden tribute, the singer annoys me as he does everything naturally, no warm up, no exercises and hes not technically orientated but he pulls it off at every gig

however i am finding it tough on the maiden stuff though and im just singing it at home, alot of it is on my break and i get tired very easily!! Jaime already gave me a pointer from the online questionnaire that i need to improve placement and support.

What are the best exercises for doing this and should I concentrate on exercises and not singing the songs, as i keep getting discouraged when i get so tired!! should i just accept that its maybe not in my league?

ANY pointers wwould be appreciated

Dont give up, it takes time. Singing IMO is the hardest instrument.

"the singer annoys me as he does everything naturally, no warm up, no exercises and hes not technically orientated but he pulls it off at every gig"

Well then he's doing it right for a Maiden tribute band, cause Bruce is the same way

Aint the healthy method though.

Try finishing RYV and then come here to ask what you should do. Do all of the exercises, as they ALL help with your break and will give you both vocal and dynamic range to take down those maiden songs. And don't worry if it doesn't come quickly. I've been using Raise your voice for almost a year now, and sometimes I get discouraged until I remember what I sang like a year ago. Completely different people.

Some people have the natural ability to pull that stuff off...and yeah it's annoying to see that.

I have a friend who's like that too...he can just sing high notes super loud, gritty, powerful and he hasn't sang a scale in his life!

I was trying to figure out why and the best answer I can come up with is that maybe it has something to do with genetics or maybe it has something to do with the way he talks. (He's a real jovial kind of person who always sorta talks in semi-headvoice.)

In any event, people who are not naturally inclined to sing like that (for whatever reason) have to work hard at it.

To sing Maiden, there isn't one individual thing I could tell you to do. His sound and his range is all a product of a really coordinated, powerful, tension free vocal mechanism.

All you can do is start doing scales on different vowels, at different volumes (falsetto up to full voice), read and reread Raise your voice...follow the exercises: falsetto slide, Transcending tone, sirens, hums, lip bubbles, zzz's etc etc etc...

Get a (good) vocal coach, make these exercises a part of your life. Odds are, if you're having problems singing Iron Maiden now, they won't be resolved quickly. There are no quick fixes...just incremental improvements over time.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic...I just remember starting out thinking "yeah this time next year I'll be able to sing anything," and then the next year I was like "yeah this time next year I'll be able to sing anything," and now I'm like: "voice exercises and singing are simply a major part of my life and making major improvements is just a very gradual evolution"

but the road is different for everyone...

Thanks for the response guys, more or less what I though, although I havent been using RYV for long I did thought i would ask since this is the first time I have ever came across somewhere that focuses on rock and metal singing so thought i might get more pointers here.

I have read numerous books and had a years worth of lessons, unfortunatly getting a good vocal coach is not really an optionas I am in Scotland and most of them tend to be the strict mistress and piano type!!

I know I need to improve support and placement and was looking for good tips towards this while still following the whole of RYV

Jay, I don't think you are right about Dickinson, I know for a fact he warms up and takes his voice very very seriously, he may not sound as technical as some of the guys talked about on here but he knows how to work his own voice and know his abilities and limitations.

Funnily enough my singer is quite a jovial guy and is constantly talking and laughing in a loud head voice!! I keep telling him when we are travelling down to a gig that he is going to tire his voice out before we get there but it never happens!!

Guess I will have to just keep working away but I can play guitar like Adrian Smith, so things aint all that bad

Bruce warms up with humming until his teeth are buzzing. Keep plugging at it. My favorite singer is Rob Halford and it was a week or so ago that I was able to hit the high note in Dreamer Deciever. Remember intelligent planning + consistent action = desired result. The intelligent planning is RYV. The rest is up to you.

Here's a quick tip for now...

When I found this trick out it really helped me sing easier in the higher range...

It has to do with placement...do a resonance hum on a scale...take notice as to where the sound is vibrating in your face...low notes in the chest, mid range in the face and high notes moves towards the top of your head.

Now when you come to sing loud (after a warm up of course)...sing in full voice but always make sure that the now loud notes are vibrating in the EXACT same place as the falsetto hum notes. Focus that sound, drill it in there with lots of downward support. If they don't vibrate in the same place you are pulling up "weight" and the tension is preventing you from singing properly.

This is really the fundamental key of singing: resonance, placement and support.

> Jay, I don't think you are right about Dickinson, I know for a fact he warms up and takes his voice very very seriously, he may not sound as technical as some of the guys talked about on here but he knows how to work his own voice and know his abilities and limitations.

Actually, he does not. He didn't use to in the 80s, which is why he completely and utterly destroyed his voice in the Fear of the Dark days. I've heard bootlegs from the end of that tour where he was trying to sing the Trooper, failed to access his head voice completely and sounded like Blaze Bayley. As far as I know he took lessons after that, which is why he's properly back in action now. F me, in the latest tour he sounded absolutely amazing.

I still dunno whether he warms up, I've heard conflicting statements about that.

I know that Dio says he never has warmed up.

bruce did take care of his voice. when he was in college he was dating a girl that was in choir and she saw he had natural talent and taught him a couple exercises. for a warmup he hums until his teeth are buzzing and then further does the same kind of thing with a manic grin. as far as taking care of his voice on stage he has a thermos of black coffee and one of those face steamers that he breathes into somewhere behind the stage in between songs

Drinking coffee while performing? Thats almost as bad as smoking.

And guys, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass alright. I heard HIM SAY in an interview which I saw on youtube which I can't seem to find now that said (this was when he had long hair) "I used to warm up, but I don't anymore. The show is about the audiance, and when you spend fifteen minutes before the show going "me me me me me" (he did this in one pitch, as if singing the word me) then you can't go out and sing to them"

I'm paraphrasing, but he said himself that he didn't warm up. Whether he does these days, I don't know. But there was a time when he didn't, and he seemed to do alright, not his best, but better than I could.

I disagree with "almost as bad as smoking", but it is VERY bad for your voice while performing unless you've mastered those high notes. The fact that its black helps a bit though, no milk or sugar.

I host an open mic night in a coffee shop and i'm a coffee physco and I'm normally drinking coffee right before going on, i don't sing my best, but for the most part i'm fine.



Then again, the long term effects of doing this is way worse than the short of having some fuzzy notes. I've tried smoking and then singing, it doesn't make it much harder, but after a while of it, you're probably screwed. Just for the record, I DON"T smoke. I just tried a little of a friends and then sang along to some songs. Smoking is pretty icky. Long term of energy drinks while singing made my voice add rasp to itself when getting loud, so don't drink those.

If you're gonna drink coffee, time it around when you have to sing.

Ive heard Bruce has trained operatic techniques and admires Pavarotti...
I wouldnt take to serious on all the rock singers saying they havent trained and they are naturals back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
Mostly thats lie's atleast the one's thet keept their voices when growing older.
Rocksingers where sorta rebels in those days, and rebels for sure dont train... They are.

i think it was on rock in rio dvd that i saw bruce doing siren type stuff backstage before the performance. and ive read an interview where he said he does warmup with the manic grin thing that mossman was talking about.

> Ive heard Bruce has trained operatic techniques and
> admires Pavarotti...

I'm quite sure he did so during the 90s. During the 80s he did blow his voice completely.

> I wouldnt take to serious on all the rock singers
> saying they havent trained and they are naturals
> back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth.

Depends on the singer. I dunno whether I'd believe Dio, he's made so many conflicting statements about everything. I do believe that Halford hasn't and it's pretty obvious considering how inconsistent his performance generally is and the rapid decline of his voice nowadays.

I've heard the singer of Into Eternity, Stu Block, hasn't had any lessons. Which is CRAZY, the guy is a beast on vocals.

I know Rody Walker didn't have lessons besides a few more recently, and he's my favorite singer.

Just saw Maiden last summer and Bruce was a monster. He was so fit, dynamic and in great vocal form. One of the best shows I have ever seen. Whatever he is doing now seems to be working.

I admire Bruce a lot too. I was trying to get an interview for your guys this summer but he's too big... May be next time I'll have better luck :)

http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Secrets-Heavy-Rock-Singing/dp/1860744370/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1229819746&sr=8-1

Check that out; has the Bruce interview in there. I know oiselle and myself have both tried to set up interviews, but management and PR people can be kind of hard to get through

Certain drinks seem to not affect people. I have the worst allergies in the world so theres always things going on with my voice depending on the weather/day/season, but oddly enough no soda or energy drinks ever affect my voice. In fact, there have been days that i've had 2 litres of water trying to hydrate and my voice was still not feeling there, and after a frozen Mountain Dew I sang normally haha. It really is different for everyone.

bruce drank the coffee during the performance.
yeah that book is where i read it. lotta great interviews in that book and it also turned me onto a lot of great singers. corey brown was cited in that book saying that he used jim gillette's vocal power

and i got my book autographed by geoff tate