Hey ive read through the some of the topics on this forum about the type of voice used and im still confused. But i do understand now that you cant do falsetto slide and transcending tone using the typical falsetto.

heres a clip of me
http://media.putfile.com/Voice-Type

Im confused about what the first and last ones are but the second one is the typical falsetto. Im trying to get light head voice but i do not know how it sounds like or feels like.

Thx for any help

Take as much air out of your falsetto as possible. It's easy to get into the light head voice in doing lip bubbles. That's how it worked for me. It should be quiet and petite... try it on a yawn. Just make sure it stays connected. Also make sure you're free of tension, this will be a huge problem since the light head voice is very delicate. Hope I was of some help.

Okay-

Sound #1 sounded like a light fullvoice, maybe slightly a mix, about a 7 on the 1-10 scale

#2 was a typical breathy falsetto

#3 was pretty close to what I want.

Now with that said, I KNOW there are many different meanings for the same terminology out there, but when applying the RYV techniques keep this in mind:

Chest voice and head voice are places not tones. Chest voice is low, or below the beak and headvoice is higer or above your break, BUT the break can be eliminated!

Falsetto to me is falsetto whether breathy or clean. I want it very clean. Now tere are people who will argue with me and say "Well that's not falsetto, that's head voice" To them I say this is MY METHOD, so shut up kids and listen. Yes it IS headvoice when it is above the break;)

So the easiest way to think of the FS and TT exercises is using the same exact pure non-breathy falsetto tone, but instead of worrying about whether it is falsetto or head or full yada yada yada, just think of it as a "Tiny" voice; like a fly singing...not whispering either. Keep that in mind, shoot for your sound #3 and you'll be on the right track;)

I know you don't like me commenting on this subject, Jaime, but I think it's important to talk about it.

The problem I see - which I often stress upon - is that the "typical breathy falsetto" that you don't want us to use is a completely different thing from the clean, quiet falsetto that you do want us to use. It's not just a matter of eliminating the breathiness. For me, the "typical breathy falsetto" is completely disconnected, and the "clean falsetto" is connected when I concentrate. However, when I eliminate the breathiness of the "typical breathy falsetto", it's still disconnected. And even when I make the "clean falsetto" a little breathier, it's still connected.

I have talked to two opera singers about this matter, and both of them do not seem to be ABLE to produce the "typical breathy falsetto". It's so weird! Whereas a good freind of mine who has never sung in his life can, by imitating me, produce both the "typical breathy falsetto" and the "clean falsetto" and has told me that he also thinks they are completely different things.

I'm not bashing your program, Jaime, since you never SAY that the "typical falsetto" and the "clean falsetto" are the same thing. But I think you should say that they are very different, and that it's not simply a matter of using less breath! Once I realized what exact voice you mean by "falsetto", everything made sense to me.

I hope you're not angry, it just means a lot to me, especially since you helped me so much with your book, to CLARIFY the issue for future readers. Now, I still am open to anything. I could very well be wrong. I'd just like to hear what you say to this, Jaime.

so the one i should be using is the third one in my audio clip? ive done falsetto slides using it and it still flips into full voice and it doesnt really feel connected like what legatoman said

I heard your clip, and while I would have said the same thing as Jaime did, the quality isn't good enough for me to be absolutely sure. So if the third one still feels disconnected and breaks every time, you're probably still using the wrong type. As I said in my previous post, it is possible to eliminate the breathiness from the "typical breathy falsetto" and still have it crack. I'd say if your new falsetto doesn't feel dramatically different in your throat, then you're probably still doing the old one.

You know what he has to say about it Legatoman :p. He already said it. And he's said it multiple times whenever this comes up and you bring it up ;).

I'm not bashing you, but I think Jaime's pretty muchly said what he's going to say about it :).

You know, I COULD just sit back in my chair and think "ahh, NOW I know what Jaime means by falsetto. I can correctly do the exercises. But I spent a long time thinking the wrong thing! Oh well, who cares, I found out now, and I won't help anyone else out there who might be having the same trouble."

Well, the truth is, I'd rather do my best to get the issue out there, and help clarify any uncertainties people may have.

Legato has a valid point. I need to hear these thoughts because it means there was some confusion. The two sounds are completely different,but they still are falsetto. Glad your non-singer friend told you how it is though;) The clean tone CAN break that is why we do falsetto slides over and over again...to connect the falsetto to the full voice at a low volume. The tone in #3 is the right direction, it will just take time to get it smooth. Keep at it;)

Right. I was never completely connected from the get-go using the right falsetto. It takes lots of practice.

It's really easy to get locked into an argument about, 'this is head' and 'no actually this is'. It really doesn't matter what you call these things as long as the teacher and student are on the same wave length. Look at CVT, completely throws 'conventional' registration terminology out the window. We may use different terminology but we could still be talking about the exact same thing.

Ive heard that the light head voice / connected falsetto youre supposed to use has a limit in the range but the one im using now can take me incredibly high

the correct one should take you all the way up to whistle tone.

Open Mic is right. I am not here to say my terminology is correct either, but as far as teaching the RYV approach, these are they way I want to use these terms because that is the way I been taught. Yeah CVT is really cool but it threw me when I heard them calling falketto "flageolet"? I couldn't figure that one out, haha. The correct light tone I use will carry you into whistle. That is how I developed whistle on the Falsetto Slides;)

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Disclaimer to Open Mic: My issue is not about terminology. I have never said "your definition of falsetto is wrong", or anything of the sort. My only concern was defining the voice that is necessary to perform the exercises with, and arguing that it is a "seperate voice" from the "typical" falsetto.
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To Jason/Jaime: Yeah, exactly. If you can go seamlessly into Whistle, you're using the right voice. My "clean falsetto" stops at about E5, from where I've learned to bridge into Whistle. Howver, If I use the "disconnected, typical, breathy" falsetto, I can go right up to a Soprano C, but then it just STOPS. No way of expanding it.

Anyway, thank you for appreciating my effort, Jaime. As I said, I'm not criticising any concepts in the book; it would just be a matter of saying to your students who are having trouble with the falsetto exercises: "Some people say that there's this really breathy, disconnected type of falsetto as well. So if this is what you think falsetto is, don't use it. What I need you to use is a DIFFERENT kind.."

Although actually that 'breathy falsetto' you refer to -can- be used in some cases to open up the voice. If the student is having trouble with the falsetto being very tense, or the transition from the chest into middle/head/whatever-the-hell-you-want-to-call-it isn't at all smooth you can use the loud breathy falsetto on a very, very fast "AH!" on something like a 5-3-1 pattern (i.e. g4-e4-c4, a4-f4#-d4, etc.) just very loud, open, and as breathy as it wants to be to keep the throat open.


I don't suggest doing it for very long, or for everyone, but it is a great exercise for some people and I've used it with some success myself and with other people in the past.

It's more of a bandaid really. You're just patching up a problem so that you can go in and fix other things more easily... then hopefully the problem 'heals up' and you don't need the bandaid any more.

Actually, I state in the book that the typical falsetto is very breathy and lacks resonance. Then I go on in the exercise section to state that I want them to use a tiny, pure, clean, non breathy tone. Don't know how much simpler I can put it, haha. As for the breathy falsetto exercises, I'd never use them. I don't personally feel they have any value in opening the voice. That's not to say it wouldn't help some people, but why use excess breath to get their. I have other ways to get a singer to open up;) But that is just my personal approach.

I didn't say you said Jaime was wrong. Just that you seem to be calling the same things different things (which doesn't matter if everyone knows who means what).
The sounds are different in the sense that your 'clean falsetto' has adequate vocal fold adduction (or closure)and the 'typical falsetto' lacks adequate adduction. That is the only difference if you are using the terms in the way I think you are. Would a breathy chest and a 'clean' chest voice be different voices for you?
Breathiness is not ideal (or overly healthy). As long as people know that the clean sound is what you want and have ways of getting that sound then all is cool. I used to have horrendous problems with my head voice and it took me a while to sort it out. As Jaime has said, taking it light and pure and building on it is the best way to get there.

i am able to go up to D#5 with the first voice in mu audio clip. Jaime says its mixed? so that means the higher notes like D5 are in head voice? So if i lighten it ( light head voice ), thats the voice i should be using for fs and tt. Im suspecting thats the one i should be using bacause its the only thing thats connected to my chest voice.

im getting really upset now with my progress , i thought i would be able to sing B5 with a strong and clear full voice after a year with ryv. Sigh... i cant even do lip bubbles lol

If the voice is connected to Chest, then it's the right one ;)

And don't get discouraged. I have times when I feel like killing myself because I'm so frustrated with my progress... but the good thing is, the next day is usually another breakthrough! So keep at it and you will see progress. Believe me!

P.S.: Try slightly pressing your hands on your cheeks as you do the lip bubbles. Helped me in the beginning!

Legatoman you bridge through whistle at E5? how does that sound, how are you able to bridge that low?
Ive got problems getting whistle on anything below G6

Well, actually I don't think of it as Whistle at that point... There's a voice between Head and Whistle that I call "Soprano Voice" (simply because it's in the Soprano range). Even though I haven't worked out the break between Soprano and Whistle yet, I know it can be done. So for me, my registers look like this:


Whistle (E6 < ..)
^
Soprano (E5 - E6)
^
Head (E4 - E5)
^
Chest (E2 - E4)
^
Vocal Fry (.. < E2)


Somehow, all of the register shifts are around E. Keep in mind that I can only navigate between these registers when vocalizing VERY quietly. As far as I can hear, Jaime can sing full out in his "Soprano" range, which is how he gets those amazing high notes.

And yes, I know I sound incredibly pretentious talking about the "Soprano" register. Please understand that I'm just trying to describe what I feel in my voice. If you guys don't feel that there is such a register, simply ignore me.

yea the first voice in the audio clip is connected but it sounds alot like normal full voice to me... and i can do fs and tt pretty easily with a few cracks here and there . so im wondering if its even the right voice , as ive read tht its really hard to do tt

Okay, I listened to the clip again. It sounds to me as if the first voice is the right one. But it has to get a LOT quieter! Try taking that sound, and then minimizing the sound until it's completely pure and small. And you need to relax more. No straining allowed! ;)

Believe me, doing Transcending Tone correctly IS difficult. You might just be swelling in falsetto, which is fine, but not what the exercise is about.

Thanks alot legato man... this probably saved me lots of time if i kept practising with the wrong voice. ill try to lighten it up , it does sound abit strained and forced.

Ok legatoman then i got it right :P you shift at around the same notes as i do. The shift to the sopranoregister you talk about can be felt in in a breathy falsetto also it's just not as obvious as in the desired falsetto/headvoice you and jaime talk about.
i always feel like if van get my falsetto to release when im approaching the womans high C i will get into whistle

Anyone else notice it seems the lighter the voice the less breathy they can make their falsetto? A few lady friends of mine seems to not be able to make a breathy falsetto very well same with a few light guy voiced friends of mine. I also do notice alot of people who sing correctly for a while almost "lose" that breathy falsetto not because they can't do it anymore but because they are so use to doing the correct one they've almost erased the breathy type from their muscle memory.

Jester some people just have more closure in their falsettos than others.
For example very high tenors when getting into puberty doesnt get such big diffrence between their new deeper voice and their childvoice since their larynx doesnt grow to the same length as for example a bass or baritone.
But there are alot of factors that come into place in matters like this. maturation,your speakingvoice, natural support, what voicetype you are and what voicetype your parents are as people(children) often mimic their parents way of talking. It can result in you talking to low,high and if your parents arent a speechtherapist a poor talking technique.