The other thread was attacked with big words and technical information so I just made a new thread :P. The info was very interesting though.

But I said on Sunday i'd post a recording so someone could tell me if i'm doing anything wrong like pulling chest. So i'll start with saying that, I was drinking coffee while recording this, I was yelling all last night and day. The recording may seem loud, but i'm actually not pushing at all and they're probally about the same volume as the average person would sing at. You wanted me to go through the "break" area, so I went through it 4 times doing two G4 sirens, and two A4 sirens.

So any comments would be great :) Tell me if link has problems.

http://media.putfile.com/Sirens-for-voice-connection

Thanks,

Andrew

ANY help is appreciated, i'm just trying to be a better singer....actually a WAY better singer ;)

it doesn't sound like you're pulling chest, but I am finding it really hard to tell for sure. I've only been singing without pulling chest for the last couple of months - I pulled chest for a whole 6 months before that. But yea, it doesn't really sound like you are, although a video with a close up of your face while you do sirens would tell me for sure.

My face doesn't change as I go up in pitch, no neck muscles tense. I've looked in the mirror. On a good day i'll go up higher than that to my highest note and my face doesnt change at all.

You're not really pulling overly much, and you are floating up into the head register really nicely, but your overall tone could use some work... You've done fantastic work on getting some good range started, but you need to focus a lot more on resonance and having a little more 'ping' to your tone.

What you have right now won't carry very far without a mic, and it will probably sound just barely out of tune even if you're on the pitch because it lacks that resonance.


Good job, though. You've got a wonderful start :).

Oh wow, there are a lot of James here, I just realized :P. I need to add another letter or something.

I'll probably start using James O.

Hey man, my bad with th previous post lol.

If you want my opinion, you are pressing your voice slightly. That is to say you are pulling chest a little bit. I've heard MUCH worse though.
One of the reasons this can happen is to compensate for a lack of support. Look up the power push in RYV again. I like this little technique. I use it for particularly difficult phrases (never full on pushing down but a little). Try that and see if it helps.

If you would like an exercise from my approach to this sort of problem, you can try a sound using called a voiced fricative consonant which means that the sound you are articulating requires more airflow than certain other sounds that can prevent the folds hyperadducting (basically coming together too tight) which is the cause of that 'pulled chest' sound. So try vocalising on 'vuh'. Do it any scale you like although to start I would suggest doing it on an octave and a half scale (1,3,5,8,10,12,11,9,7,5,4,2,1 in terms of the major scale).
Try that with the power push and see how you find it. There are other things you can try aswell such as a voiced plosive consonant sound such as 'buh' which may help as well.
Let me know how it goes if you decide to try it out.

Oh...and I forget to mention good job lol. You've got through to full voice past your passagio. A bit of fine tuning and you are on your way.

Thats just the mic making the tone issues.

I've been recorded with like, camera's when i'm doing acoustic sets with no electric stuff. My voice without pushing cuts over the acoustic guitar. Also my old singing teacher said I had the whole resonance thing down pretty good. People who have heard me through mics and acoustically have all said I sound better not through a mic.

And to open mic.

I'll try that exercise tomorrow. I'd do it today but I just drank some coffee and my voice is feeling weird from all the yelling yesterday haha.

Thanks all ;)

Lol don't shout...it's not good! Shouting (when done incorrectly) initiates the same mechanism as 'pulling chest' does known as pressed phonation. Not cool. Gauranteed to make you suck for a few days!

haha well I tried to use singing type stuff when shouting so it wasn't bad for my voice. But when your doing it all day and your not used to it all day, no matter what your gonna wear your voice out a bit.

When I woke up I couldn't hit F4. Now i'm about back up to normal. Probally because I didn't warm down at all.

Sounds fine to me. If you can do that all day everyday without tensing or straining, i'd say you got yourself a good base. As far as the mic goes, as a singer, you'll have to use one eventually if you want to perform, so i'd suggest you find that mic that makes you shine. Remember, all mics are not created equal. I know Jaime almost religiously uses SM58's, but they don't keep making new models for no reason. I've been blown away by the sound quality and volume without feedback from a few mic's by EV. Something to look into.

Well the mic I used to record this was a recording mic thats supposed to be used to mic snare drums or acoustic guitars for recording. I also have two other recording mics, an Sm58, and an SM57

So I have 5 microphones, but I just wanted to grab the closest and do it in one take. I'm that lazy xD

Sorry I don't have time to listen now... I'll try to do it later tonight...

I might be contradicting the others by saying this, but I don't think you went into Head Voice at all in that clip. I'd say those G4/A4 notes are at the top of your Chest range. You mentioned that you could go up to D5... could you post a clip of you singing that? I'm pretty sure a D5 would be in Head Voice.

It completely depends on how you are using the terminology. At the end of the day, the aim of training, particularly the male singer traditionaly, is to get a full voice sound pretty high (can be heard as high as a G5 and beyond). Therefore, you shouldn't notice any timbre change (unless going into head voice in which case it should be a gradual unoticable transition). Btw I use head voice as the hooty sound. I have seen some peeps at th voice council refer to head voice as a full voice tone (ie using traditional resonance terminology as opposed to myself who uses sound quality terminology).
That slightly sqeezed sound on the A4 leads some people to call it 'pulling chest' but in reality a pulled chest sound is produced differently to a healthy full voice sound so actually a pulled chest sound is not simply taking that chest up higher.
Does that make any sense? Your voice really is one.
That make any sense?

Yeah, I sort of agree with you Open Mic, but it just sounded to me as though he could not have gone any higher, regardless of Chest or Head voice.

Yesterday I probally couldn't have gone higher. I woke up not being able to go above F4 at all. Normally I can go to G4-A4 easily without warming up, but my voice felt really weird. I also haven't done my usual vocal routine in a week or something, haven't had any time. I'll make another recording sometime this week of notes that are higher.

Heres one I just did going up to B4.

Comments?

http://media.putfile.com/Sirens-for-voice-connection-Bs

I want to hear that D5. But it still sounds to me like you're transitioning into a fine full head voice.

Actually I'm thinking on that last clip that you might be pulling chest, because your lower note sounds throaty and your upper note sounds pulled.

I just listened to your sirens. Great job! I don't hear the break. Your voice is well mixed and the transition smooth. I think your larynx is raising a tiny bit on the 2nd siren; watch out for that. Keep your larynx relaxed to allow it to tilt forward completely (pull down your chin until your feel some kind of opening by your ears to keep the back of your lower and upper jaw open wide)and remember to imagine your voice going through the soft palate and through your sinuses (around your eyes, cheeks and nose) almost in a circular motion. That should help add some richness to your tone.

Yea, it definitely sounds to me like you are pulling chest. That's exactly how my pulled chest sirens sounded.

So many James' here. From here on, I shall be known as James P.

Okay- that sounds amazing! It's hard to believe you never had a problem with your break. I sure do! haha. Well, I'm glad that you have solved that problem!

Don't rush those Sirens. only the last two sounded a tiny bit forced. You need a slower slide to fully master it;)

It definitely sounds like you are pulling chest...
It sounds like I used to sound when i pulled chest (Same as what James P) said.
another thing that gives it away is the way the vowel opens up as you get higher.... if you was using headvoice you would be able to keep an A, E, OO etc the sounding the same at the top of your range as the bottom.
Also (this used to happen to me when i pulled chest) I used to have those days where sometimes I couldnt get as high etc... something weird would just happen to my voice. It was just from the strain of pulling chest. Now Ive found head voice I can hit all the notes I can hit on any day....
Do what i said, perhaps even record it. Try and EE vowel and an OO vowel siren.... if you find 'have' to open it up as you get higher, ur most likely pulling chest.... if you can hit the highest note from those recordings with a those closed vowels, then you are using head voice.

Thanks for the replies...but some said it was fine, some said it was pulled chest.

But to the last reply about pulling chest. My range is never lost the next day. The only time it is, is when I for whatever reason am yelling all day the day before. I'll sing for 3 hours straight and the next day i'll be fine.


So uhh.....who's right?

Listen, here is the bottom line. These guys are right when saying you sound as if you are pulling chest because it does sound a little strained as you go higher. It may not cause you to have any noticeable problems right off bat. I woud suggest REALLY slowing WAY down when you do these, picture the voice as a triangle, hang on to the EXACT same volume and feel your whole body as if it were vibrating like a tuning fork. There is absolutely nothing wrong with soundign chesty and beefy on your upper notes. I have people like Manning and Lunte calling me a "chest puller" haha, which is sooooo far from the truth. I just know how to add that chesty rock sound in the upper register to make it sound that way. Just take your time and know you are close to being there;)

Sorry, I know you don't like us to say it, but I know what I'm hearing--there is definitely some throatiness on the lower notes, and then some pulling going on in the upper notes. It's not the mic.


That isn't to say you don't have a fine voice--you do. You also sound pretty good, but you have much more potential in there, and fixing the throatiness will really help.

Yes very true. You need to realize that if you take your time and really work on these exercises, you won't be trying to manipulate the sound yourself with the throat muscles. It must all become second nature without a controlling approach;)

Ok thanks everyone!

I'll probally record them again in a month or so and compare them haha.
I actually usually do them slower than that, but I was rushing because for some reason after a few minutes, my mic starts getting distorted until I re-open the program.

But i'll do then EVEN slower than I usually do. Also i'll try to eliminate "throaty" sounds.

And from everyones replies...

Its not chest, but it sounds chesty from strain.
And I don't have a "break" sound.
And i'm close to getting it right.

So now I know exactly what to work on ;)

Thanks all!

Another thing....Will UBW help with taking away some of the strain that a lot of you heard? I ordered it, so hopefully it does ;)

The ultimate breathing workout helps eliminate the use of excess air, not only to get rid of that breathy sound and hold out longer notes, but to take some of the pressure off of the vocal folds. In my opinion, it is just as important to a serious singer as doing actual vocal exercises.