THE VOICE CONNECTION
SOUND OFF

Welcome to The Voice Connection Sound Off; a forum for users of books like Raise Your Voice, Melody to Madness, The Ultimate Breathing Workout, and Unleash Your Creative Mindset, as well as a place for Vendera Vocal Academy members to interact.

This message board was created so that singers could come together and "sound off" to help support each other during vocal development and the creative process of unleashing the creative spark that occurs when writing and producing music. Currently, myself and vocal coaches Ben Valen, Ray West, and Ryan Wall are here to respond periodicially to your questions, with new vocal coaches coming soon. But, feel free to help each other too:)

This board is here for you to ask questions about my and my fellow coach's books, videos, and MP3 programs, as well as offer others help with our vocal techniques. You may also post videos of yourself and your band to share your music and ask for critiques.

Please refrain from negative comments, profanities, spamming, and inappropriate criticisms of vocal methodologies, vocal coaches, and singers. All negative posts will be deleted and subject to banning without question. I will not respond to negative posts, because, as Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” With that said, positive criticism is welcome because that is how you'll grow as a singer during the training process.


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mum scale...please listen and comment

i am having a soar throat actually...so yeh...but i have a few questions...

1. what kind of sound was that?? head voice? falsetto??

2. how was the scale?? was chest, middle and head all heard?? was it crappy?? can i go higher??

3. so how should head voice sound like then???

i relaly want some help...honest and good comments please mates!!

http://www.box.net/encoded/10723083/108109417/1fb9e28f529f5b40c6cc969228c2f806

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Welcome here; I'm new here too void(0);
void(0);;
void(0);. I'm gonna answer your questions to the best of my ability. I may get some things wrong so please don't be mad at me:

1. The first one is definitely falsetto.

2. As far as I know it's not really dangerous to bring your larynx down. In fact, it can be useful at times. It just sounds cartoonish and unpleasant to the audience if you do it too often. You seem to be trying a little too hard on the "mum" scale. Try to relax. I know the hardest thing to do is to relax when you're trying to get those higher notes. Try of thinking of your voice as horizontal, like a piano. There are no high and notes; some are to the right some are to the left. I know it's a lot to ask, but this will help you I'm sure of it. BTW this advice comes from "Raise your voice."

3. That note is pretty high; however, not impossibly high. If you wanna get there practice, practice, practice. That is after raise your voice comes.

Concerning Opera teachers. I came to dislike them for many reasons. The major one is that they classify your voice and tell you what you can do or cannot do. Just trust in yourself it will be good. Just make sure that you voice doesn't hurt after singing; if does you're damaging your vocal cords.

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

1) Sounded like head and falsetto...remember you can vary the degrees of both. The breathy sound indicates there was falsetto though, but it sounded heady.

2) The scale was good for a beginner. It sounds like you're tensing as you go up the scale, which is pretty standard for a noobie. The last set of mums I really didn't like, but maybe it's because you had opera training I wouldn't know. It sounded to me like you were just pulling up chest, with no mixed or head voice. Remember as you go up the scales to RELAX and let your voice do what it wants and sort've change gears. It might help to say "Mwuahm". You will be able to go (a little or a lot) higher with (a little or a lot) more practice.

3) Umm...gonna link some youtube vids for comparison.

4) You asked this question in the video...lowering your larynx is okay but try not to overdo it and don't force it or you'll sound like the village idiot. If you meant you wanted to get a raspier sound...I'd wait a bit.

5) As for the question about the soft palette...it sounds like you're getting there but not quite there yet. It didn't sound like you were straining either, except on the high notes.

6) lol, yeah that was a high note.

P.S. What sort've accent is that? Your regular speech sounds a bit odd, but it might just be your accent. Regardless your new mission is to start projecting when you talk in real life and to start enunciating your words more. Let the sound just bounce off your lips.

P.P.S. is that a synth organ sound?

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Oh shit I forgot those youtube examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbQfpiKwLQw - the chorus vocals, the "hee hee hee's" and "ha ha ha's" are falsetto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxjAODp0xKE - male and female head voice in this one. I chose this song cause I love the vocals. Pay attention to his higher notes and chorus vocals.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

whats synth organ???? well i am 100% asian...from hong kong...i grew up in hong kong and i went to international school...so i might have like a mix of different british, cantonese, australian, american accent...but i would say that its hong kong english accent to be accurate...haha...yeh i think sometimes i am just use to swallowing bits and parts of a word..just use to it...but when i sing in english...i make sure that i ahve every bit of the word but i guess more in teh british's pronounciation..?? i really dont know on this...

i really want to get it clear...u said i wasn't at hte soft palete yet...do you mean that i am singing too far back or too far to the front of my mouth...like too high or too low larynx???

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Don't worry about your accent mate. I was born in Belarus so I have a Russian accent with some other influences in there as well. It will give you a unique sound to the voice, a good thing.
It's better to sing mum on low larynx than on high larynx. Normal tendency is to raise larynx when one goes higher. How do I know? Been there, done that, got out of that for good. It's easier to move to normal relaxed larynx after singing on low larynx, rather than high one. I just hope that you are not planning to sing with low larynx all the time.
Can you sing higher? If you don't have to push for it and it doesn't hurt, go for it. However, it seems to me that you are trying too hard. In the mum scale you accessed your head voice, which is good. Don't worry too much about the soft pellet. As long as you feel resonance in your throat/head, and you're not forcing the air though you cords you should be ok. Recently, I have cleared up with Jaime Vendera that singing higher requires less air, so you shouldn't push when you sing higher. Higher notes will come with time. Me I'm trying to sing anywhere I can; so should you. This results in humming and sometimes even singing on the street; this has caused me getting some "look at this weirdo/crazy guy" glances. Oh, well too bad for those guys.
Try to be as relaxed as possible when you sing. Do your neck, throat, chin, jaw, etc, muscles hurt after singing? Do you tense up? The answer to that should be "no."

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

before...my muscles dont get tensed up...but after having lessons with this opera coach...sometimes yeh...i think i will go figure everything out with him during our next class...he is making me do classical singing...

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Classical singing is NOT metal singing. I managed to get my vocal coach to start reading raise your voice. Too a while though. Many of those coaches are NOT open-minded. One thing I like about Jaime is his open-mindness. He always looks for better way to teach voice. Many other coaches are locked in their way of thinking and that's it. Good luck convincing your classical teacher to start teaching you what you love; if he doesn't want to teach you what you want to learn, find another teacher. It's that simple.

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Haha I walk round in public places singing as loud as I can sometimes. Just keep smiling, even if you're bad. Girls love it.
(As a side note, some public places are more acceptable then others...the bus would be a bad idea, and so would the church . Use your discretion.)

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

1. It was falsetto, if you kept that same note and sound timbre, but sung it louder, it would be reinfirced falsetto. If you sang it louder with this sort of timber ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH5gmbugmxM ) its fullvoice, therefore it's headvoice. Many people have different ways of refering to falsetto and headvoice, but I think this explanation is most consistent with Raise Your Voice. Fullvoiced head register singing is headvoice, anything less forceful is falsetto in head register.

2. The scale was good, sounds solid. I heard Chest, Middle, and then at the end of middle I heard some strain and you didn't go into head REGISTER. You stopped. The volume you were singing at wasn't indicative of full voice volume...thus you wouldnt go into headvoice, you'd go into falsetto. The timbre of your voice on the first few scales sounded like full voice, but then you lightened up. The intensity must be kept to get up into full voice. This is where the "power push" comes in to play.

3. Again, headvoice sounds like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH5gmbugmxM

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

thx!! that was a great great tip mate!! cheers!!!

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

1) falsetto
2)I think your scale started off pretty good with a correct mixture of chest/middle voice. Your voice should always be mixed a little to avoid going completely into chest voice and singing in your throat. It sounded a tiny bit nasal to me. Imagine that you are projecting your sound right between your eyes rather than in your nose. As if the sound is standing on your nose. If you got RYV II, look for my vocal tip on staying away from a nasal voice.
3) The head voice sounds constrained. The should larynx tilt forward as you go up in your range. Therefore, the front end lowers while the back end raises. Relax your throat and make sure your tongue doesn't fall backward as you go higher. Leave its tip slightly resting on your lower front teeth.

When you open your mouth, open vertically not sideways. Don't smile at all it it helps.

Good luck!

Valerie

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

RESPECT!! great tips mate!!!! lots of thx to you and everyone aswell...one more thing...i want to know if i sound like that i dont seem to be "breathy" enough as in not sending enough air up meself?...which caused that bit of nasality???? because today, i tried to be a bit more breathy compared to the posted audio...and i manage to not sound straining...but instead i had an operatic sound...that is alright??

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

I don't think you sounded breathy at all. Don't try to sound breathy, too much air damages the vocal cords and will hurt them in the long run. The nasal sound is cause by your voice resonating too much in your nose. Move up your focus a little bit like I said. Imagine that you are pitching the voice (just like a ball) from your stomach to your eyes. Opera doesn't sound breathy!

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

hmmm...i take the breathy part back...does it make more sense if i say that i dont have enough support?? how about...i am aiming too front, when i am suppose to aim up more, then front??? i know what u mean by havin the sound from at the eyes...but i am just not sure waht the feeling should be like...

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

The feeling is: Freedom! Free your voice When it is properly placed in its natural resonators, it will vibrate freely and it will seem to be floating. You don't need more support to do this. You just need to move around your focus. Make your sound travel from your nose to between your eyes.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Oh my god man. You have been misled by classical voice teachers. You have to keep posture that way, you have to stand that way, you have to breathe that way, you have to give more support. I never really figured out what support here means. Does it mean pushing harder? If that's the case, don't do it. Just relax and let your body do the job. Don't think about those things. They will develop naturally. When you're thinking too much about things like these, they are gonna cause you to TENSE UP. This is gonna prevent the easy airflow, and then you're gonna be told to do more of those things. It will create an infinite loop, where your problems are cause by the "solutions" provided by your teacher. OK, I admit that you have to breathe properly; just practice inhalation sensation breathing. Soon enough it will become like second nature to you. Other than that just concentrate on getting pitch right and getting resonance going. Honestly, ask your classical voice teacher to get acquainted with "Raise your Voice" and work with you on Jaime's method. If he refuses, find another teacher.

Hey oiselle; great job here. Love your helpful comments. You're proly the greatest person on this board after Jaime. All Canadians are great, so are you, and so am I . LOL.

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

i am being well honestly...although i haven't started reading jaime's book because its still on its way...but after listening to his audio files...i find that he has a well wicked way of helping people find their voice of their dream...and if i really find myself improving more from jaime's exercises...i guess i need his book and this message board from now on...its realy amazing...i was surfing on teh net on teh 8th november, then i found the voice connection forum and it brought me to jaime's book...and i notice that it was the day that this new book of his was publishsed...i have wicked fates for this book and method to be honest...and so far this message board has helped me a lot....it seems like i will not be with my classical coach anymore....thx everyone...cheers

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

K friend. It seems you misunderstood me. The teacher is highly recommended. That's why I keep mine. The teacher will keep from going into bad habits and point out things that you are doing wrong. You just have to find a teacher that will work with you on "Raise Your Voice."

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

ahah oooops...but should i stick with a classical one or other kind?

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

It doesn't matter as long as they are willing to work with you on what you want.

Read this. This is the article by Jaime Vendera himself. So check it out.

http://www.thenextstepguitar.com/lessons/vendera01.html

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

nice nice...i think my teacher is not bad after reading the article to a point...i just think that teachers wont teach you everything or review every secret/method until they've made a few bucks...btw...how much do ppl here pay for vocal coaching??

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Mine is relatively cheap. $40/hour. Once a week sessions.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Oh, and a good teacher who is passionate about what he is doing will do everything in his power to help you achiever your goal. Unfortunately, most of them care only about the buck. Sad but true. There are, however, good teacher who will do everything to make sure that you succeed as soon as possible.

Stan H.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

here aswell bud...btw...you are trying to say that if i do all those exercises from jaime's...everything wil just come together naturally?? try not to think about too many things????

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Let's worry about those things once start working on Jaime's exercises. There are too many little things involved that could go wrong or w/e. My vocal coach is relatively open-minded so he never really told me to give more support. K I'm gonna go read "Raise Your Voice 2" now. So see ya later mate. I'll answer any questions that you have 2morrow morning.

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

Shrybouski,thanks for your feedback! Just keep in mind that I'm classically trained though! Just to show that not all classical teachers are bad... It just depends on their teaching style and your learning style that may or may not be compatible. And there also are just plain bad voice teachers too... Classical, jazz or pop... you get the point!

Thanks for Jaime's article... I missed that one for some reason... I'll read it later

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

oiselle...are you a girl?? french?? cause your display name ends with elle...jsut wondering...and that brough me to another question....if the coach and the student is the same sex...would it be better??? or it really depends on how much the coach knows how and what to teach???

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

I don't think that gender really matters. It could be helpful have a coach of the same gender, but by far not necessary. Yes, oiselle is a woman, and French Canadian. The most important thing you need to expect from a teacher is that they are willing to work with you on what you want: includes style, methods, etc. Jaime teaches girls, and I don't think that many of them complained about him as a vocal coach.

Stan

Re: mum scale...please listen and comment

I am a woman and French canadian as mentioned above And I agree with Stan. The teaching approach and philosophy are more important. The instrument works the same for both gender; it's the thickness and the length of the cords that determine the range.