This is a topic that really interests me. I think my topic line is a little vague, but I think there will be some who know exactly what I'm referring to just from that description.

I'll try to give some examples of this style/sound.

The best pure example is the guest singer on Sting's "Desert Rose". I can't think of his name, but he is some kind of Arabic superstar. And many have referred to him as one of the greatest singers in the world. I think the reason for this is that this style is considered to be one of the most difficult techniques to master.

Now I will say, I'm not really into that "pure" style as much as when a western singer incorporates it into his arsenal.

Examples of this: Daniel Gildenlow of Pain of Salvation, Jeff Buckley.

I also think there are some who have stumbled on the same technique, but not by emulating the arabic sound, but rather from exploring the roots of the blues sound. Examples of this would be Paul Rodgers, and Stevie Wonder.

Now if you still don't know what I'm talking about...here's more of an attempt to technically describe it. To me it seems like using something like a quasi-yodeling technique to articulate very fast scale passages. I also think there is a very fast fluctuation of the diaphram to help it along. Almost like when imitating the "Woody Wood Pecker" laugh.

The reason I mention the larynx too, is that in my experimentations I've found that the larynx has to rise up some to let this fluidness happen, and also to give the voice the proper timbre.

Now, I do think I'm heading in the right direction with these ideas, but at the moment I sound so completely foolish attempting this stuff that I'd never dream of posting a sample, haha, but I hope some of you might be able to know what I'm talking about here.

So, anyone have any experience in this area? Helpful hints along the road to mastering this technique?

Ah, I think I may know what you mean. I believe Gildenlöw does it at the end of "Iter Impius".

It's sort of like "allowing" your voice to break between different notes. Must be REALLY difficult to do it in tune.

ah yeh i know what you mean, i have no idea how to so it though :P ive tried but i just end up sounding terrible lol

You are on the right path. Sahaj Ticotin from RA does this thing a lot live. Try practicing a lot of arabian scales and allow the larynx to jump high and low. Larynx position can very for vibrato and tonality, it just becomes a problem when you cannot hit a high note without a super high larynx.

JV

Do you mean attacking notes quickly with a semi-tone higher or under the intended note? Similar to classical singing ornamentations? But actually, the larynx wouldn't move for classical style while it does feel like it's moving very fast for what you're describing... I feel the soft palate being actively engaged as well.

I remember Brandon posted a video of him and his buddies jamming on Arabic scales. He can probably tell you more about it; Brandon?

Hmm...now I'm not so sure what you mean. Can someone post a clip?

Yep Brandon was doing some of that. I think he mneans more along the lines of like the indian singer in the song Return To Innocence. Cannot remember the name of the band off the top of my head.

JV

The Return to Innocencen song was done by that band Enigma

Yeah, I add a lot of that Arabic sound during our practice sessions.

Before I go any further, I'm pretty sure the singer in "Desert Rose" is Cheb Mami. He's Algerian.

If you're curious, Paul, you can go to youtube and type in Veil of Phasmids. You'll find four vids of my band. One of them is simply entitled Arabic jam. WARNING: I've since quit smoking after a long conversation with Jaime after he saw the video, so don't be too pissed at me

After you watch the video, tell me whatcha think, and then ask all the questions you'd like. I'll be more than happy to answer them.

And in case you don't know, melisma is the term used to describe the quick and sudden note changes in the voice. So please repost after you view the video, and I'll help you from there, brutha!

Hey thanks for the responses everyone.

Brandon, yes that clip is exactly what I'm talking about. Great stuff by the way. There are some really excellent moments in there. It's kinda funny too with the sync being all screwed up thanks to youtube (as usual)

It's definitely the ornamental stuff that trips me out. Musically I'm very familiar with the actual notes and scales of this style, but it's the vocalizing technique to get that really fast ornamentation that I'd like to harness. I can even do some of it not too badly in a light falsetto, but as I add thickness to the tone, it becomes much harder to move that fast.

I really like the phrase at 1:00 Starts nice and smooth then blends into a really fast run. Am I right to think that engaging your diaphram in a particular way is part of that?

Oh, and yes, Cheb Mami is the guy. here's a video of Desert Rose live. The guy's ability for ornamentation is unreal.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=n4Q1CYOX418

cheers,

-Paul

You are correct in assuming that the diaphragm plays an important role.

As far as melisma is concerned, whether it be for an Arabic sound or blues or soul, the position of the larynx should change, but very minutely. Your larynx should kind of jump up and down in VERY small intervals.

The diaphragm becomes important when used in conjunction with the Power Push. But don't try to match the positioning of the Push with each individual note. The notes themselves should be almost "choppy" while the pressure applied to the Push should be rather steady. Just apply a little more pressure on the higher/louder notes, and ease up a little as you fall into your more comfortable range.

As far as gaining speed with the notes, ascend or descend (I personally prefer to descend) each note of the scale very slowly. And the more you become comfortable with knowing exactly where you need to land, try speeding it up a bit until you eventually reach your desired speed.

If you need me to clarify or specify anything I've said, just let me know, and I'll go into a little more detail for ya.

Thank you for the compliment, by the way.

Brandon,

Thanks for the advice. What you said all makes perfect sense, so that tells me that I'm approaching it the right way. I know it's gonna take some hard work and practice to get this thing tamed, (I say 'tamed' because I feel like I have the power to do it, just right now it feels really out of control and awkward) but anyway, I'm ok with that. :)

That's what I'm here for.