Hey everyone,

Even though this is a kind of critical comment on RYV, I hope it doesn't come across as some attack on Jaime. I obviously don't mean to criticise him in any way...I just REALLY want to settle this debate once and for all. You can probably already guess what it is: the definition of falsetto.

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In RYV, the term FALSETTO is used for the "quiet version" of full voice. One of the exercises is to swell from FALSETTO to FULL VOICE. This implies that FALSETTO and FULL VOICE are connected.

It took me a long time to find out that my definition of FALSETTO was something completely different. I had always thought that FALSETTO was the kind of voice that, for example, men use when they "imitate" a woman's voice. The sort of breathy, high sound that tends to break into FULL VOICE alot:

Audio Example I - "My Falsetto": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_I.mp3

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When I first attempted the RYV exercises, I noticed that my definition of FALSETTO wouldn't work. My FALSETTO felt completely disconnected (and still does) from FULL VOICE, and when I break from my FALSETTO into FULL VOICE, I have about an octave jump. Here's me attempting the Falsetto Slide and the Transcending Tone using my definition of FALSETTO:

Audio Example II - "RYV exercises using My Falsetto": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_II.mp3

As you can hear; when I attempt the Falsetto Slide, I break horribly into FULL VOICE. When attempting the Transcending Tone, I don't transcend from FALSETTO into FULL VOICE- it simply gets louder and more resonant, while staying in FALSETTO.

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Now...the reason I got into singing was because of James LaBrie of Dream Theater. I used to "sing" his lines on my way to school, using a very QUIET and NON-BREATHY sound. I didn't have any problems hitting really high notes- even though they were quiet. I also didn't have problems going seamlessly from my "low full voice" into this kind of "high quiet voice".

Then I noticed that Jaime was actually referring to THIS kind of voice when he used the term FALSETTO in his books. Both the Falsetto Slide and the Transcending Tone work pretty well using my "high quiet voice", because it actually feels connected to my FULL VOICE:

Audio Example III - "RYV exercises using my "high quiet voice": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_III.mp3

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Just to make things simpler, I'll refer to my "high quiet voice" as HALF VOICE from now on. HALF VOICE makes more sense to me, because it's basically just a quieter version of FULL VOICE.

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Now, when threads like "How high can you go in falsetto" turn up, I ask myself: which definition of falsetto does he mean? It would make more sense to use my definition of FALSETTO, and not HALF VOICE, because in theory you could sing just as high in FULL VOICE as you can in HALF VOICE- it's just quieter. And for me, at least, my FALSETTO range is much higher than my HALF VOICE range:

Audio Example IV - "Half Voice range, Falsetto range": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_IV.mp3

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But Jaime and everyone else seem to use the term FALSETTO for both MY DEFINITION OF FALSETTO and for HALF VOICE. That doesn't really make sense to me, because they feel like two completely different things. HALF VOICE is just a quieter version of FULL VOICE (and what I use for the RYV exercises), and FALSETTO is a "high voice" that feels completely disconnected from everything else.

Please discuss. I hope you understood what I'm talking about.

I am probably not the one to answer but wouldn't the have voice that you are talking about be what is called mixed???? I know whwn I am in falsetto cause I can go way higher and when it is full voice it is a deeper richer tone.

MIXED VOICE is supposed to be, like, 5 on a scale from 1-10 of "Full Voiceness".

HALF VOICE, for me, would be a 1. FULL VOICE would be a 10.

FALSETTO, on the other hand, would be something completely different that isn't connected to anything else.

Sorry that you asre misunderstanding my concept. I in no way want you to think that falsetto is a quiet full voice. I am still tryi8ng to figure out how you got that. But I promise RYV II will seperate tones from volume or dynamics. I state that you should start in a quiet falsetto and transcend into a loud full voice. I also said that you will break. That is because as you are increasing volume you just also transcend the tone to full voice. Listen to my audio examples. I also said that falsetto sounds like, Justin Hawkenss from thge Darkness, the Bee Gees and Prince. That should thoroughly explain the tonal difference if you listen to any of thoise singers. Falsetto, as I say in the book, occurs when the glottis is open wide and you sallow a weak, non resonant sound to come thyrough. Full voice is more focused and full of resonance and is your regular voice. Falsetto is like you say, imitating a girl, similar to Aunt Bee on the Andy Griffith show. This IS exactly what it is, so don't let others confuse you and I am sorry that it wasn't better presented to help you figure it out. I'll keep that in mind and add a few more helpers to explain it better in the next book ;)

JV

legatoman,

this is just my 2 cents...not gospel by any means. But I listened to your samples, and in my opinion, there is good news and bad news. The good news is, it doesn't have to be as confusing as you think. It's all coming from your voice...yes, they are all connected. If they don't feel that way, that's because smoothing out all the so called register breaks in your voice is, well, bloody hard. That's the bad news.

In your example IV where you go as high as you can in what you're calling "half-voice" my ears still hear a transition into what 'I' would call falsetto. The next portion where you're able to go much higher is just falsetto but starting at a higher point so there's less transitional work to be reckoned with by all those tiny vocal control muscles.

I believe you can connect them. I think the most valuable tip you'll find in RYV is the phrase (paraphrased) "go slow through the trouble areas" You really have to take this concept to the extreme I think. When you're sliding through those break areas, go microtone by microtone and let them last for several seconds each. Those little muscles will go through all kinds of weird feelings while trying to figure out how to accomplish what you're asking of them, but if you go super slow, they'll catch your drift...then after much practice like that, they will develop the muscle memory.

The same applies to transcending tone, only it's even harder, IMO.

But the long and short of it is, yes, you should (with time and practice) be able to start in a girlish breathy falsetto and transcend into a mixed head voice, or half voice or whatever you choose to call it, and into a fully resonant voice, and back and to and fro etc, all in the same breath.

experiment changing through all these timbres in your comfortable range, you'll see it's quite possible (and quite fun) then it's just a matter or work to expand that "comfortable range".

Hope you find at least some of that helpful.

-Paul

Paul Adrian V.,
Oh man I would love to hear breathy girl falsetto to full voice transcending exrcise- Jaime's example is excelent but Jaime starts on this real man falsetto while I would like to here all spectrum starting from really breathy girl falsetto!

I just thought of something else....

Regarding transcending tone. I know for me the transition between falsetto and full voice is so easy in the lower and mid range, and gets harder and harder (taking more focus on technique) with each ascending note in the break area, but then, surprisingly, up in the higher range it becomes easy again. Could this phenomenon be leading you to conclude the two starting falsettos are different?

Does anyone else experience this? Where transcending tone becomes easy again, after the break range. I suppose this will vary for everyone, but just for a frame of reference, my trouble area with regards to transcending tone is from about F# - Bb (above middle C, I forget the numbers) at least right now when I tried it basically having just woke and completely un-warmed up) I suspect fully warmed up the trouble area would shirnk on both ends, to like G, G# and A, then it becomes no problem to transition back and forth as I continue higher, B,C,D...any higher than that and I'm probably dealing with more of a resonating mixed voice anyway, but if I'm actually using that range in a song I just try and focus more on the emotion I want to convey than the technique. (a good rule of them anyway...well, when "singing," I mean...I do focus on technique when exercising.)

abe, I don't have a webspace so I can't really upload anything. Do you have myspace? If you do, then you could send me a prvt message with your email address, and I could send you an mp3 or something. (I wouldn't recommend posting an email address here in a public forum, to prevent spam) my "space" is at http://www.myspace.com/paul_adrian

Wanna hwear reall breathy girl falsetto? Just add breathiness to that real man falsetto, haha ;) That is the biggest difference. I am just not allowing my student6s to use a breath blast when they do falsetto becasue there is no need for it.

JV

Yeah, like Jaime said...I don't really see the difference either. IMO, if you can eliminate the breathiness (the part that some people have a lot of trouble with) then putting it back on seems like it should be no problem. But hey everyone finds some things easy to grasp and somethings harder, when compared to others. Everyone's learning process is different, so whatever helps. And like it says in RYV, I never use the breathiness in exercises, just when I'm messing around with different modes of expression.

I know most of the time people associate breathiness with girls, but check out Glenn Hughes, he'll lay it on here and there just for effect and it sounds totally bitchin...a completely different vibe than say when James LaBrie does it for that "sensitive" sound.

-paul

Thanks for the prompt reply, Jaime.
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I guess our definitions of "Falsetto" are now the same. We're both talking about that really high "female" voice that, for example, Justin Hawkins sings in alot. But you said:

>>Falsetto, as I say in the book, occurs when the glottis is open wide and you allow a WEAK, NON RESONANT sound to come through.<<

But I can swell my falsetto to become extremely loud and resonant, to the point where my mother (the opera singer) admits: "I can't even sing that loud". And it STILL stays in falsetto. Your definition of it being "weak and non resonant" actually applies more to Half Voice, because if it would get any more resonant, it would become Full Voice.
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Paul Adrian V.: >>In your example IV where you go as high as you can in what you're calling "half-voice" my ears still hear a transition into what 'I' would call falsetto. The next portion where you're able to go much higher is just falsetto but starting at a higher point so there's less transitional work to be reckoned with by all those tiny vocal control muscles.<<

After reading this, I actually tried to go higher than the G5 when sliding from "half voice"...and it worked! It went right into falsetto. But I DID feel a "break" around G5. After I broke from my half voice into falsetto, I could slide back down, STAYING in falsetto.

:::Audio Example V - "Weird slide": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_V.mp3:::

What I did was: Start on an E2 in Full Voice -> transcend to Half Voice around E4 -> transcend to Falsetto around G5 -> Slide up to an A5 in Falsetto -> Slide back down in Falsetto...and since I was sliding down in Falsetto, I cracked, as I usually do, around B3.

So...what the hell is happening to my voice? I can now slide all the way from my lowest notes to my highest notes, but my actual "break" from half voice into falsetto occurs in my SOPRANO RANGE.
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Paul Adrian V.: "Does anyone else experience this? Where transcending tone becomes easy again, after the break range. I suppose this will vary for everyone, but just for a frame of reference, my trouble area with regards to transcending tone is from about F# - Bb (above middle C, I forget the numbers) at least right now when I tried it basically having just woke and completely un-warmed up) I suspect fully warmed up the trouble area would shirnk on both ends, to like G, G# and A, then it becomes no problem to transition back and forth as I continue higher, B,C,D...any higher than that and I'm probably dealing with more of a resonating mixed voice anyway, but if I'm actually using that range in a song I just try and focus more on the emotion I want to convey than the technique. (a good rule of them anyway...well, when "singing," I mean...I do focus on technique when exercising.)"

>>I experience the same thing. That's because the mid-range is harder to control. I expect it will become easier over time.

Personally I always assumed that the girly sounding falsetto was more of a reinforced falsetto. But like LegatoMan, I do consider these two types of falsetto (girly and breathy vs. light full voice) to be very different. Like for instance, I would never use the girly sounding one for a falsetto slide because I would never shift into the chest register, it would just continue down as a falsetto-like sound (until it sounded like I was trying to imitate the lowest note that Mickey Mouse ever said)...Therefore, for the slide, transcending tone and every other exercise I use a light full voice (at least it feels that way). So for TT exercises, I'll start off girly, then I wait for that shift to light full voice, then and only then can I swell to full voice. Otherwise if I try to swell the girly breathy sound, I either won't be able to get full voice or I will violently break into full voice.

Anyway, sorry for all that blathering. Getting back to what I originally said about the breathy, girly tone...and how I think that this is a type of reinforced falsetto. This sound reminds of people who yodel, or like Dave Mathews, or like The Darkness. However this sound is produced by the chords, it seems that it inherently can be loud and it cracks hard over the break area. On the other hand, take Coldplay for instance, this guy actually sounds like his falsetto is a light full voice...and if you notice, there are no obvious sudden jumps or cracks from chest to head...like Dave Mathews or a yodeler.

So anyways, I also consider these two diferent sounding falsetto's to be totally different.

When you swell the sound you are creating a reinforced falsetto. It is just a focused falsetto sound with lots of support for loudness. A lot of metal singers use that technique. SOme coaches call it a pharyngeal voice. I prefer to state what it is; reinforced falsetto. And falsetto is not just a high pitch. You cana ctually bring the falsetto quite low. I can bring mine below a middle C.

JV

altered:
THANKS for being the only person who seems to understand what I mean. My only question is:

"So for TT exercises, I'll start off girly, then I wait for that shift to light full voice, then and only then can I swell to full voice."

>>So you just "wait" until it shifts from girly to light full voice? How do you do that?
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Jaime:
"When you swell the sound you are creating a reinforced falsetto. It is just a focused falsetto sound with lots of support for loudness. A lot of metal singers use that technique. Some coaches call it a pharyngeal voice. I prefer to state what it is; reinforced falsetto."

>>I see. Isn't that the same voice you use to break glasses?

:::Audio Example V - "Weird slide": http://members.aol.com/Ninteeny/Example_V.mp3:::

I listened to this. That point where you break on the way down...I'd just hang out there, spend some quality time getting to know that break area intimately. Slow the speed of your slide down when you are just before that point, and from there keep sliding in the tiniest increments of pitch imaginable. At first, strange and ugly sounds will result for sure, but I think you can smooth that out. Have fun!

It's hard to say what really happens...yeah I do have to wait like a half second for me to find that light full voice feeling...Like I dont "just" wait. I have to change from one falsetto to the other. But at the beginning of a TT exercise this is a very easy thing because of the low volume.

Paul Adrian V.:

Hmmm...not too sure that will work; especially since I've never actually heard anyone slide from "girly falsetto" into chest voice. (Yes, I DO think Jaime is using a light full voice in his audio clips)

But still, thanks alot for your encouraging words, Paul.
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altered:

Wow, I can't really imagine how that's supposed to work. Could you, by any chance, RECORD a clip of you transcending from "girly falsetto" to "light full voice"? It would be VERY MUCH appreciated.

Yes I bresk glasses with a reinforced falsetto. There it is out. The cat is out of the bag ;) But it is very far from a tyoical falsetto and physically a lot closer to full voice. As far as the flasetto slide and slideing from a light headvoice into chest voice, that answer is WRONG! What I try to do with my students is get them to eliminate the beathiness in ALL tones, especially falsetto. I AM sliding from falsetto to full voice and i used to crack on the way down. It is the smoothing and blending the two at that critical point to smoothly go from false to full that is the point of the exercise. Let's clear up some stuff about falsetto and headvoice. Falsetto is falsetto and headvoice is full voice. PERIOD! Falsetto is a coloring and full voice is a coloring. Chest and head voice are both full voice. Chect voice has the majority of resonance felt as if it is produced in the chest and head voice it feels as if the majority of resonance is produced in the head. If you want a mixture of the two different colors (falsetto and full voice) then you practice transcending tone. Half way from falsetto to full voice is what SLS people called mixed or middle voice. Read this all again because there will be a pop quiz next week ;)

JV

Pharyngeal voice is not the same as reinforced falsetto, but i wont go into that because it will just confuse people even more... you ask what is wrong with your voice.... it isn't strong enough to do what you're asking it to do. follow jaimes advice, keep practicing and don't give up, you'll get there eventually

Hey Jaime,

I hate to be a pest and drag this on here...but one last final thought.

On your example audio mp3 of the falsetto slide this is the EXACT tone that I (and I think LegatoMan) are referring to as light full voice...you say this terminolgy is wrong...so I will never call it light full voice again...This is obviously falsetto...the exercise is called falsettto slide.

I think the main point of this post was to find out if there is some kind of difference between:

1) The falsetto you do on the mp3, which easily enables you to slide from falsetto to chest voice

...and...

2) And the falsetto that tonally sounds more like mickey mouse and when you do the slide it either goes to a REALLY low falsetto, like really low...or cracks heavily into chest voice.

The consensus, from everone besides me and LegatoMan, is that this second falsetto I mentioned, is an underdevelopped falsetto that cannot do the slide properly..(at least I think)...when in fact, i can do the slide...using a very very quite falsetto that sounds exactly like the tone on your mp3 (the first falsetto I mentioned)...but cannot do the slide using the second.

I think the reason this whole thing was brought up..is because the 2 tones FEEL really different in the throat and larynx...the first one feels like you can swell into full voice...the second one feels like you can only sell into a louder falsetto.

They are different...Different shades of falsetto. I deliberately make it light and pure to eliminate the mickey mouse and bvreathy quality, because if your fasletto is breathy, you won't be able to slide without cracking. Same with full voice. Try to do a Siren on a breathy full voice tone. You WILL crack becasue the breath is too muich for the cords ; and Jordan, please do go into the difference between reinforced falsetto and pharyngeal voice because from what I am seeing, every vocal coach on the Voice Council, besides me, is calling a reinforced falsetto a pharyngeal voice. I have read all of Ceasari's books, but sincer I am not classically trained and haven't heard any audio examples, that is what I am told it is. I'd like to know more.

JV

All this terminology is hilariously confusing...

I don't have a problem with falsetto (of whatever shade) in my mind I know when I'm singing in falsetto.

My confusion with the terms is around this middle voice, pharyngeal voice, head voice and mix voice stuff.

I always thought of head voice and mix voice as the same. People I associated with this voice would be Geoff Tate, Sting (on songs like Roxanne) Robert Plant, Roy Orbison if you want to go back a ways.

By Jaime's terminology, as stated above, head voice is full voice. This is a different use of terms than I had previously held, but a few days ago, when Oiselle mentioned holding your nose closed and checking to see if the tone changed (in another thread) I tried it and was surprised to hear that on the notes where I thought I was using a mixed voice, I closed my nose and the tone didn't change at all, implying to me "full voice" so now I see where Jaime's definition is coming from.

btw, Jaime, one of the reasons I really like RYV is because I think your definition of terms is really well explained. So that even if that's not how a person would've originally understood the term, they can still follow your meaning for the sake of the exercises. Kudos!

And also, I too would like to hear more about the definition of "pharyngeal" voice.

anyway, this has been quite an informative thread.

-Paul

Paul,

Not to piggy back on this post but I wanted to comment on suncaged. Your band rocks vocally and
instrumentally! I will have to turn my son on to it he is a shredder..

Although I appreciate all of your replies, I have the feeling that this thread isn't going anywhere.

I am certain Jaime and everyone else know what they're talking about. The problem is, we can only communicate through text, and this debate is about the SOUND of your voice. I'm pretty sure that altered and I are using the correct kind of voice, because it really sounds exactly like what Jaime uses in his clips- so it must be just a matter of definitions. I suppose I'll just have to wait until I come to Ohio to get my first JV lesson to settle this. :)

Thanks for all of your input.

Hahaha, thsanks Paul and legatoman. I am very seldom on here and as you know Brandon hendles it. In fact, I haven't checked out the soundlcips because I literally don't have the time roght now. But mixed voice is right between falsetto and full voice, like when transcending tone. Think of head voice as lossely being anything above your break and chest voice, below the break. Although this isn't necesarrily always true, it is a typical situation. I discussed this with Brett Manning and bottom line- we both agree that if it sounds cool and is pleasing to the audience, don't worry about it, just as long as it doesn't hurt your throat ;)

JV

Falsetto is weak and allows large amounts of breath to escape when being used, Pharyngeal does not. Your vocal folds are loose and ovaliaform when singing in falsetto, but in pharyngeal voice they are firm, taught and linear, and offers lots of tension resistance. Also, pharyngeal voice is present in the same range of pitches in the male and female voices, and while it can be extended upward for females and males, is present in the LOWER part of the voice for females. Falsetto also carries little to no resonance and activates almost no harmonics, while a pure pharyngeal sounds activates more than any other coordination. I think part of the confusion is because of the term "the witches cackle" and how everyone describes it, and the singers they use to show you what it sounds like. Pharyngeal voice in it's pure form, unmixed w'ith your "real" voice is most definetly a "lighter" coordination, as it reduces your folds to the least amount of depth BUT the GREATEST vocal chord tension, and has an intense amount of carrying power and volume. The only real reason you would want to use "pure" phayngeal would be if you wanted to strenghten the mechanism, it sounds unbearably awful unless you mix it with your regular voice, which would mean you would add more depth the the chords, but keep the amount of tension... as a matter of fact jaime i can distinctively hear pharyngeal voice in all of your high notes in your audio examples. you quite obviously mix it with your basic voice to get that kind of power. I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion on the pharyngeal voice on the voice council, because none of them have actually studied it except for lugo. I think i remember Lunte saying he, or "we" rather invented the technique...which is ridiculous because it was talked about extensively in italian vocal technique 350 years ago, and is the reason why non "natural" operatic tenors trained properly can sing high c's and even e's and f's above that. Listen to a recording of enrico caruso singing a high c, and tell me that sounds like falsetto. You know i;m a rock guy and not and opera guy jaime, but a lot of your stuff came from that end of the spectrum too, as did Jim Gillette's. There's some great stuff on that side, but there is also a lot of bias and confusion as well. I'll try to get the chapter on pharyngeal voice in "the voice of the mind" onto an acrobat file and send it to you so you can read about it.

oh yeah, and for those of you who dont know me,i'm actually a rock guy, and i love jaime and his techniques, i just disagree with him about this one little thing.

would it be proper (either in part, in whole, or not at all?) to describe pharyngeal voice as the point at which adduction (zipping) begins? That seems logical to me.

Thamls Jordan,

What's funny is that I have read all of Ceasari's books, but the pharyngeal sound didn't even phase me until all this talk on the Voice Council. So I went directly to Lugo and asked him to write a useful tip for RYV II explaining the pharyngeal voice. I've tried Lugo's pharyngeal exercise and they sound EXACTLY like the soiund I use to break wineglasses, which to me sounds like a reinforced falsetto. I'd lov to review that chapter from Caesari again. Bottom line though, like I pound into my students, if it sounds cool and gets the job done, don't worry about it ;)

JV

Ok, so this can be settled once and for all, here is the audio clip about the pharyngeal voice from Caesari. A lot of people don't know that there is an audio CD to accompany "The Voice of the Mind". You can order it from his daughter, Alma Caesari-Gramatke. Either mail her or email her. I don't have the CD myself, but someone sent me a few tracks from it. Here's the one on the pharyngeal voice. http://files.myopera.com/CunoDante/files/08-femaleandmalephraryngeal.ra

Also, I don't think there is a limitation as to how high females can take the pharyngeal voice. You have to remember that this information was written with OPERA singers in mind. Operatic females don't sing the same way pop females do. If a female continued to go up in the pharyngeal voice, she would sound like a pop singer. That's not within the operatic sound ideal, so they put the limitation there for females.

And for those that want to read the chapter on the pharyngeal voice from "The Voice of the Mind", go here and read "Pharyngeal 2". http://www.bivr.org/pharyngeal.html

I know there is no limitation... i said it can be extended upwards, but it was primarily found in the lower part of the female voice...

and yes Jaime, you know i agree with the as long as it sounds cool do it...

Cunodante, its nice to hear from you again by the way, thought you dissapeared from existence there for awhile.
do you by chance have her e-mail, i have her mailing address but good lord that would take forever. That's really cool that it comes with a cd, and i'd like to have it.

Wow that is a really LONG read, but very very informative! Thanks for sharing it. I skimmed over some, but some very good technical info. I like that kind of stuff now and then, even though of course I echo the sentiment of Jaime and others...if it sounds good, and feels good, then don't sweat the technical details.

btw, Chrispx, thanks for the above comment! I appreciate that!

Also, I think I have the answer to my above question, and that it is "no" pharyngeal voice is not simply the same thing as proper zipping, though I still think they may be somehow related.

one more quesiton...I find that as I'm experimenting with the pharyngeal sound, my larynx automatically rises. I have pretty good control over it in other exercises, but something about making this tone seems to require an higher larynx...Jaime does your layrnx stay low when breaking glass? It seems impossible...not saying it IS, but it seems so unless there's some trick I'm missing? Is it possible to make a pharyngeal sound with a low larynx?

Hi everybody,

I believe that LegatoMan is on the right track regarding vocal terminology! Because most of the terms used in this forum and in RYV and in almost any other book about singing are old and outdated. In many cases it realy confuses more than it is helpfull....ex. chestvoice and headvoice!! Chestvoice is refered to as a register AND a tonal quality at the same time...so is the headvoice! And sometimes people talk about pulling chestvoice up in you headvoice or lowering your headvoice into your chestvoice.... ....you get my point? There is a system which divide the voice into 4 modes : Neutral, Curbing, Overdrive and Belting....theese modes describes the tonal quality as to how much "metal" or "edge" there is present in a given tone....each of the modes can then be modified to a certan extent ....To get back to the term falsetto....it's about time we say goodby to that old term!!! Instead the mode Neutral is much more handy.....LegatoMan is trying to describe 3 different sounds but has only one term(falsetto) to juggle with ....Neutral is a soft sound...just above whispering, when you sing a lullaby! Neutral can also be compressed and then there is no air on the tone....thats it ....and finaly the reason why you cant´t get louder in the trancending exercise whitout breaking is because you sing whith a "flageolet" on the note which is the same as Jaime describes as a "dampening" or the zipping up........well enough for now....but I´ll be back

come on you guys.its not rocket science

I personally think that isn't really a very effective way of looking at it Martin. It's best to just go with the well known terms (chest,head,falsetto,mix,whistle,etc) instead of complicating matters any further by adding all of these new terms. Thats what bothers me about a lot of methods. People make up their own definintions of each register, or like Catherine's technique that you're speaking of, will just come up with all new names for everything. Whats the point? If you are going to refer to registers at all, its best to just keep with the known names. I know knew approaches helps to sell product, but it isn't exactly making vocal training easier.

For example, some people call a blend of head/chest a mix, others call it middle voice. I've seen many people who are spending countless hours frustrated trying to discover this "register" and try to determine which is which or if they are both the same thing. Falsetto/Head voice is a problem as well, but it should be obvious. The cords are adducted and vibrating for head voice, while for falsetto its just the air blowing through open cords which produces the tone. Head voice, you're going to have resonance or else; falsetto basically just goes straight through the mouth without any real resonance, unless you are using a reinforced falsetto of course but there is no point in complicating matters even more with bringing that up.

The point is most registers are actually not that difficult to tell apart once you start to pay attention to aspects of the sound. Everything should be based on the cord set up and tone/resonance involved when determining a register, not really the tonality which is what the curbing/overdrive/etc type thing does.

Again, just my opinion and I know this technique works for many people, but its all just too abstract and subjective to me.

Austin said:
"Falsetto/Head voice is a problem as well, but it should be obvious. The cords are adducted and vibrating for head voice, while for falsetto its just the air blowing through open cords which produces the tone."

Hmmm, I see what your getting at, but that complicates things in my mind in another way. Are you saying that if adduction is occurring then it's not falsetto? That seems wrong to me. I'm just going by my own sensations, and the terms as I understand them in relation to my own sensations, but I would say that even after adduction occurs there is definitely a falsetto voice. (does that mean that the vibrating portion is still being held somewhat loosely while the point of adduction and below are clenched together? seems logical to me) Any way, the combination of adduction and falsetto is what the "falsetto slide" exercise is all about IMO.

As for inventing new terms, I agree with Austin. I don't think it's helpful, it just means there are even MORE terms out there to get confused about. If you adopt a new set of terminology, and you have any desire to read and do more research, there's no way around the fact that you'll have to know what is meant by the original terms in order to gain anything from all that's been written in the past (and certainly there is a LOT to be gained from that, even though you may come across the occasional outdated concept)

-paul

"come on you guys.its not rocket science"

oh, and to this I say...I'm sure there are many scientists out there who would say that understanding the nuances of the human oranism is every bit as, if not more complicated, than the general physics and mechanics it takes to propel a pointed object by use of blunt force. haha

;) don't take this too seriously, I know I'm oversimplifying astro-physics but this was an attempt at humor ;)

I understand your point, but if your familiar with Cathrine´s method you should now that the good old terms does not describe the human sound that well...I´m not saying that we should forget all about the old terms but singing technique has evolved along with all the new ways of singing....and it is my opinion that the old terms fall behind. As to registers...A register is a distance between two notes just like an interval. But when I´m talking about Neutral for instance I´m NOT refering to a certain register like chestvoice og headvoice. The mode Neutral can be used through your entire range from bottom to top....I´m not just saying this because I´m under Cathrine´s "spell" or something
But because I´ve worked with many different methods...Seth Riggs, Brett Manning, Joe Estill, Bel Canto, Jaime Vendera, Jim Gillette etc. And I found that Complete Vocal Technique(CVT)...simplyfies singing the most....and isn´t that what we all want?? To make it as simple as possible....

Paul :(does that mean that the vibrating portion is still being held somewhat loosely while the point of adduction and below are clenched together? seems logical to me)

I agree with you Paul, when you clenche a part of your vocal cords it is like a "flageolet" or "dampening"...only a part of the cords are vibrating. If you want to increase the volume the cords needs to come together and when they adduct a break occurs....

I may be a bit off, but i've always learned that the cords don't actually adduct in falsetto, they are just stretched across from each other and the air is what is mainly changing the pitch.

The way I see it, your cords will stretch until they can stretch no more. This would be chest voice. Then, the cords begin to come together (adduct). At this point,there is less vibrating length available so its a whole new set up which is head voice (the frequencies from this new vocal cord set up resonate in the head so its called head voice). Now, if you keep adducting until there is only a tiny pinhole left, you're going to be in whistle register. Otherwise, you will be entering falsetto when the cords come apart and its now just the air going through the tensed cords (not the bad kind of tension) that is controlling the pitch.

Like I said, I may be off on a few things but that is what i've always learned and it makes perfect sense to me and science seems to back it up. Regardless though, I still think its extremely important that people don't continue coming up with new names for registers or really even any type of sound. I realize descriptions like curbing and overdrive may help some people, but its also going to confuse the hell out of just as many people as it helps, so its not really worth it for teachers to keep renaming stuff that already has an established title.

Well, this is exactly my point! The term falsetto....you see, there are so many definitions and we spend so much time "translating" so we can understand each other...it´s a waste of time and a shame in my opinion...but again that´s just my opinion ...I don´t use the term falsetto at all because there are hundreds of definitions ...in my terms, your definition of falsetto is simply Neutral....in neutral the cords can be with soft closure( your definition), and they can be compressed(no air), and it can be used in your entire range. But if you sing with a "flageolet" its impossible to sing low notes...and below C5 its very difficult to increase the volume...actually if you sing the lowest note you can with the flageolet, it´s completely impossible to get any louder....so Neutral is independent of registers...that is why the modes are so much more usefull to use as therms...

Actually I also try not to use the word "register" because there are also many different definations..ex chestvoice is defined by many as an area in the voice, other describe it as the sound quality, and other uses it for the amount of cord adduction etc...it´s so much easier just to say low, middle and high