Hi all!

I've hit a wall when it comes to my singing, and I was hoping on some advice on the matter.

Basically, I've been singing for about 5 years now, making a lot of improvements in the beginning. My main genre of choice has always been 80's rock and metal, but I've more or less been avoiding singing those songs, since I haven't been able to pull them off,
range-wise and with that sort of grit.

Lately I've seen limits in my range. It feels like I'm stuck. My highest note in full voice (that I actually can sing, and not just 'sound') is A4. And it's been my highest for the last 2 years.
I used to sing with grit, but don't anymore since I'm convinced I've got the wrong technique.


I'm now facing a great opportunity to really work on my voice. I've got six months of recording and studying music ahead of me, and I really want to make this time count!

So my goals are pretty much:

*Extending my usable range
*finding my correct support

and most of all:

*learning that "#!¤ Grit for once and for all!


So where do you think I should go from here?

Any parts of RYV in particular that I should read and re-read? Videos?

I'm considering saving up some money for an online lesson with jaime, but I'm anxoius that one won't be enough to break this 'vocal wall', and I can't really afford a lot of lessons.


ANY advice would be highly appreciated!
Thanks!

I can relate...I've been singing for years and am also stuck at A4 in full voice. I think I'm naturally a bass-baritone; I can get down to a comfortable G2 and as low as E2 if I push a little or put some rasp on it. I can get my falsetto up to around a G5, but there is a huge disconnect in tone from my full voice up to A4 and the notes above A4.

I've worked with most of the main home study courses (RYV, Singing Success, 4 Pillars, Rock Singer's Survival Guide) and all have been very helpful and taught me a lot. I feel like I have better technique, stamina and strain less, but I still haven't had much luck in hitting those high 4th octave and 5th octave notes in full voice.

I think the next step for me is to book some lessons with a good teacher either locally or online via skype. I'm sure there is something that I'm a little off on that a teacher can correct to help me progress on my full voice range. I've put it off a long time because I'm definitely a DIY'er but lessons sound like the smart choice for me at this point and probably for you as well.

In the meantime, a full voice A4 isn't bad at all. I've been playing out for years doing both originals and covers; you can do a lot with your current range, you just have to be smart about your song choices and be willing to change keys to fit your voice. Keep working to improve your range but don't let your current range limit your musical aspirations.

Man, thank you for that fast reply.

It's comforting to hear that we share the same range and point of view.
I know that an A4 is alright, I'm a baritone and it's been a struggle to get to where I am today, range-wise.

But it's exactly as you describe it; I am letting my range limit my choice of songs.
For example, I do a couple of Alter Bridge-songs, because a lot of Myles singing peaks at A4, and we seem to share a lot of the same approach and tonality.

But I'm actually finding it quite hard to sing in my middle range sometimes, like I can't control my voice at all times. Is that perhaps a support issue?

Once again, thanks for your reply. I'm actually looking up some possibilities of an online skype lesson with Jaime as we speak.

Fingers crossed, man!

Though my voice is a lyric voice (lighter and sweeter as opposed to deep heavy voices) I share the same range as you guys naturally. I am a lyric baritone. I've had the same issues as you guys. A4 is a hard note to get past. I don't often need to with the songs I sing though. I'd love to hear what others have to say on this topic. No matter what some people say, It is my opinion that people usually sound best singing in the part of their range that comes naturally. One guy that was a bass-baritone/baritone who sings high as hell was Axle Rose. It is possible to learn to scream high like a banshee if you choose to work at it. Jamie Vendera is some flavor of baritone naturally and look how high he can scream. He says he was classified as a bass in college, but a lot of classical/choral teachers consider the baritone a subdivision of the bass voice. I guess I don't have a drive to sing a whole lot higher than I do anymore. I wish Y'all luck. I'll be keeping an eye on this forum. Baritones and Basses unite! :)P.s. Chicks love the low voiced guys. I'll bet Chris Isaak and Myles Kenedy have no problem finding girlfriends.

No worries Ben, I didn't take it like that at all. I'm definitely of the opinion that having good tone is better than huge range but wouldn't mind having both :).

I'm ok with my current range but it would be nice to have just another 3-5 usable notes. A wider range would also be helpful to sing more rock covers without having to worry about changing keys. But I agree - there are plenty of very good singers with fairly limited ranges so range isn't everything.

Woah, wasn't expecting this number of replies so quickly. Thanks a lot for your answers, there were some really good points in there.

Myles Kennedy of Alter Bridge is one of my biggest influences. He's got a killer tone, and everything he touches, musically, turns to gold pretty much.
Maybe if I keep doing the Alter Bridge-songs, some of his style will stick on me? haha..

I do believe I've got more than this though, but it feels like I can't reach it.

When I started singing, I sang with a metal band, and I had no idea what I was doing. But I sang gritty most of the time.
Looking back on those times, I realise that I could hit some higher notes back then, simply because I didn't keep track of it. I was belting out gritty notes like there were no tomorrow.

But today, being so much more aware of correct techniques and wear-&-tear on the voice, I think i've stopped pushing to get further, because I'm afraid to blow my voice.

I've got two videos, that are pretty good examples of what I mean:

This is with my first band, just going for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1toSh_gHJM&NR=1&feature=endscreen

And this is basically how I sound today (even if the recording is a year or two). technically better I think, but limited:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiOpBPdvmM4&feature=related

Any thoughts?

Great tone, just needs a tad more confidence. There is a sadness to the tone and I like that you are keeping the "ee" sound pure as opposed to turning it into "ay" so low in the range like LaBrie tends to do (I don't know why, he's a Tenor!).

Thanks a lot all for your replies!
Didn't expect this kind of response, it's a bit overwhelming (in a positive sense).

I guess I've been down in a rut lately, and it's been messing with my head more than I thought.
But I do feel a lot more motivated at this point, and eager to start working with my voice more on a daily basis.

all of your feedback is really appreciated, especially when knowing that it comes from a group of talented singers.

and @phil, I'm gonna get to those AH-recordings when I get the chance. It'll be interesting to hear what you have in mind!

I think Phil just has a fascination with the most open of mouth positions.

In reply to your initial post Anton, I'm feeling like I'm repeating myself and pushing for self-promotion I'm believe me I'm not trying to do that at all but sometimes, books leave a lot for interpretation and what you think you are doing right, may be you're not completely. There are so many things that can affect your instrument that it's hard to isolate what you are doing wrong based on a few posts. If you can, I would strongly encourage you to book a lesson with Jaime or myself. Then you can clarify where the problem lies exactly and waist less time. Good luck!

Val

Thanks for your reply Oiselle. I understand what you're saying, and you make a valid point about having a real instructor/teacher instead of just words on print.

I did take some lessons last year, but that teacher was mainly focused on style, pronounciation and basically experimenting with the voice.

I would like some lessons in technique, and mainly support and grit.

I'm confident I've got the right support on higher notes. When I do sirens, I top at B4, and the last couple of notes before that (G4, G#4 & A4) are the ones that comes with the least amount of effort.

The issues with support I'm experiencing is in the middle range, and with certain vowels:

The "Ah" used in "father" or "I", keeping it pure without making it into more of an open wovel ("ey", like James LaBrie of Dream Theater often does).

And the "E", used in "live" or "feel".
One good example of that is the word "Live" in "with or without you" by U2. I can sing the whole song with ease, except for that vowel..

("I can't liiiiiive, with or without you")

My voice gets stuck in my throat, and I really struggle to maintain that note. But if I broaden the vowel (to an E like in "Hey"), it's easy. But I don't like the sound of it. It gets shouty.


And of course, the everlasting grit issue. I can't find that starting sound, the low grit...! I can do the sigh-grit, but when I try the normal grit, I edn up grunting and hurt myself.

I can't help you wit grit. It's normal to use vowel modification as you ascend the scale.

oiselle is right, vowel mods are needed, but the audience won't know your actually singing an AYE (as in EIGHT) instead of a hard EEE when you get in that upper range if you are doing it right.

can you send me an audio clip on phil.moufarrege@gmail.com with a sample of you doing your vocal exercises.

Holy **** i thought it is Labrie singing when you started. You have an awesome voice man.

No problem man...if you're creative there is a lot you can do with your current range. If you're a baritone topping at A4, you probably have 24+ notes of full range voice - there are TONS of songs you can do with that. How high the notes are in a song isn't the biggest thing, it is the difference from the highest to lowest note in the song that is key - if you can cover that gap there is a good chance you can come up with a good cover of the song.

An example: I'm a huge Alice In Chains fan. I wanted to cover Man in the Box forever but that powerful, sustained Bb4 just was not happening with my current range. Eventually my band decided to just change the key; we knocked it down 4 semi-tones, turning that Bb4 into a Gb4 which I can sing with power without trashing my voice (or worse - sounding awful!). Changing the key was no problem because I have enough bottom range to cover the low notes in the song (which also went down 4 semi-tones). Other than the key change we play it pretty close to the original so a typical audience isn't even going to notice the change.

If you get audacity, you can play around with changing the key of songs to find comfortable keys that sound good for your voice.

As to the mid range - I find the transcending tone and siren from RYV excellent for strengthening that area just below your top notes. I used to push really hard for anything from E4 up but now that I am used to doing these exercises up to Ab4 (TT) and A4 (siren) the lower notes are much easier. And I'm even pushing less on the very top notes so maybe my range is increasing (very slowly!). As long as we keep working at it and never quit we'll get there!

anthon send me a soundclip of you singing a piano scale on the AH vowel. also, a siren on an AH vowel up to a note that you consider is hard but possible to reach.
phil.moufarrege@gmail.com