Ok, so I must be deaf :) but:
I'm trying to understand how loud should you sing??? I'm listening songs all the time, and can hear same song differently - sometimes I think that singer is pretty loud, and later if I listen to same song I think that loud singing is illusion and he is very soft. So how loud is the singer.


Here's the thing:

case 1) - some people sing very quiet even on highest notes. They can sing high but they never add volume even on highest notes. They usually don't take deep breaths or their support is pretty low, you feel like you almost don't support notes. I know some of my friends never sing loud, their voice is so soft, but they can sing pretty high notes.
case 2) - some people sing pretty loud, and the higher they go they sing louder and louder. They usually support a lot to maintain that loud voice, and the higher they go they usually support more, take larger breaths, and sing loudly.

I go in this 2nd group - I have loud voice by default and I find it hard to sing pretty soft. I have to add volume and sing pretty loud to hit those high notes - here is me singing U2 : http://www.box.net/shared/i6xnc2kecy - I go louder for higher notes.

I tried to sing like case 1) but I find that if I try to sing pretty soft it usually goes to my throat, and I don't find it pretty comfortable.


Here is another example, this is kind of singing voice I'm aiming for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7imqO-OBVk
at 3:30 where he says "Please staaaaaay!" - is this singer really really loud or is it just illusion of very loud voice? Please answer about this song :) because I usually sing this part pretty pretty loud, but I'm not sure if that's what he does. Is he so loud here?

Any thoughts appreceated ;)

good post, in my opinion it really comes down to testing this stuff out (as it seems you are already doing).

to determine how loud someone is singing, you really need to try and match the same sound they are getting. Example: I've had to sing quieter to stevie wonder songs because my voice just comes a across as too heavy for the song. you need to SING FOR THE SONG. record yourself and ask if your voice is matching the song or not. now, i never used to be able to sing quiet. i could only hit high notes loudly. thats why you work on these exercises to build a voice where you can sing on all dynamic levels. and that cover of george michael, he's doing "vocal compression" its a fancy way of saying, he's pushing to keep that chesty sound while singing high. you won't be getting a hardy rocky belt sound if you zip up early with no tension. STRAIN IS BAD, but TENSION IS FINE.

you're on the right track, study the singer and match their sound (if you like it) and sing for the song.

singing loudly to hit high notes should be your stylistic choice to do so, not because its you're only option. Transcending tone and lots of singing without forcing the voice will build that middle area that i think you are looking for, that area where its not too heavy or too soft. if you want to strengthen that middle area you best leave behind the terms "falsetto" and "full voice" now, because the middle groun is a blend of the two.

Great answer, Phil. I just want to add my 2 pence, cents etc etc from another point of view.

You must remember that you are comparing your dry vocal recording to a professionally produced recording. When vocals are mixed, they are / can be: compressed, pitch-shifted (or auto-tuned), reverbed, chorused, Eq'd, and a wide range of other effects. The main one to think about in this situation, related to your question, is compression.

Compression, in music technology, is the act of reducing the volume of the louder signals to closer match the quieter signals. An example of this would be if a song has a loud chorus with a quiet, almost whisper-like bridge. The compression would need to be fairly strong to make them similar enough levels so you can hear both parts clearly.

To untrained ears, it can be quite difficult to pick out where compression and how strongly compression has been used. It can be difficult to trained ears too, so don't feel bad about it!

In my experience, the best way to figure out how loud a singer is singing different sections of a song is to find a live version. Compression is still used in live situations, however it is much easier to tell how loud they are singing.

Hope this helped!

good points Husky. But I think he meant more about the sound of the voice and how it changes when the dynamics increase. compression won't change the tone. So if i sing in falsetto, the compression will just increase the volume or decrease it. but if i SWELL my falsetto volume by myself the tone will completely change. So this is really about mimicking the tone of the singer and to do this you need to mess aroudn with dynamic levels. your point about the loud chorus and whisper like verse is a good example, the tone will be completely different. Example, stevie wonder will sing in a high chesty belt, but if i try to power push that and hit it hard it comes off far too heavy, i need to tone back and let that "mixed" tone come in so that i can get a lighter sound but not so light that it sounds falsetto-y. and the way i do that would be to back off on the volume.

"STRAIN IS BAD, but TENSION IS FINE."

Another aspect to consider is if you are pushing air (volume ) your cords will come apart... if your breaking to falsetto or cracking its too much air for your cords. you need to learn to approximate the cords they need less air to be able to come together once you can strengthen the closure of the cords then you can start adding more volume AKA air.

I know I have a tendency to sing fairly loud (think Broadway/Opera style singing) and my brother always says "Dude, you OVERSING! It's not Phantom of the Opera!"

But that is where he is wrong, because that is EXACTLY what I am looking for out of my voice. I use the most minimal amount of air you could imagine.... it is all about efficiency for me. If I were pushing air, I'd rag my voice out in a day. I don't know how loud Jaime's singing voice is versus the level he needs to break glass - but the Glass breaking level is LOUD - that I can promise you. He has sang when we're talking on the phone, and he seemed fairly loud to me. The key is, to be loud by not FORCED if you know what I mean - that is why I cringe whenever I hear or see somebody mention the word "belting", because to me Belting makes me think of Glenn Danzig... it is like,"I'm shouting and I'm pushing a lot of air." (Anybody who has seen Danzig live has experienced his monosyllabic shouting and the fact that his voice is gone about halfway through the night. I've seen him a few times, and he is one of my favorite singers - on recordings, live is another story.)

True volume doesn't come from air pressure - it comes from an electrical signal that is generated with the Power Push.

So for me, I prefer a more Bel Canto-based program, because i feel that as long as you are supported, your voice isn't going to give out ,and the only time I have had vocal problems from actually singing - came when I was not correctly supported.

Whether you choose to sing just loud enough to be heard, or at a really loud volume - just make sure you are singing in a manner that isn't harmful.
Thanks to modern technology, you don't NEED to project to the back of an Opera house, but it is nice to have the ability to do it.





Tim