Hello everybody,

For a few days I have been searching for screaming explanations.
Of course I found Melissa Cross' The Zen Of Screaming
and fortunately Today, Jaime Venderas Extrem Scream Series!

As far as I know, J.V. is - as well as M.C. -
using and teaching a scream with the real vocal folds.
I am curious if there is anybody, who can explain to me,
how this can not be damaging.

I am very interested in the voice and how it works.
From all I know, it is unhealthy if the cords can't vibrate freely
and in a very "fluid" motion.

As opposed to the scream, where the vibration is distorted.
Same thing with vocal fry by itself.

fyi: I do trust Jaime Vendera, I just really want to know and understand.

Thank you, ƒelix.

understanding comes with the doing. it is a gradual build up to the point where there is no damage caused. i will not even attempt to go into the biomechanics because there is no need. training with a focus on resonance and placement and just doing it over time and distance is the way.

Thanks for your reply, phil.

That is what I am saying:
If Jaime and Melissa are saying it will be fine, I believe them.
But I do want to understand and have an explanation
- if there is one - why this kind of making sound is anatomically unharmful.

I feel like mankind was not meant to make that beautiful sound by nature :-)

"But I do want to understand and have an explanation
- if there is one - why this kind of making sound is anatomically unharmful."

Unfortunately I cannot give you a scientific explanation of the biomechanics involved, someone else may be able to, but seems unlikely.

however, I can tell you that a big part of singing is to do with learning about yourself. And gaining and understanding of yourselve only comes with practice.

"I feel like mankind was not meant to make that beautiful sound by nature :-)"

"mankind" is a part of nature as much as it would like to forget it is.

i dont' want to tell you how to think or what to do, but in my experience it is not so essential to understand the scientific and miniscule point by point breakdown of how things work (in this example, why screaming doesn't hurt),but realise through application that you will have an understanding. you will learn which ways hurt and which ways won't hurt, you won't exactly know why, but you will know the end result.

i know jaime is in the same boat as me here, he often says that he is a "resonance coach", he knows what's right or wrong based on body sensitivity, sensations, rather than scientific definitions and breakdowns.

but we all resonate with different explanations don't we? so if you are purely just after an academic definition then i can't help you there :)

ƒelicopter,

What kind of scream are you refering to? Because if it's the vocal folds you refer, to then it's most likely vocal fry/creaking.

on this forum, Sofus is your best bet with the academics of singing and all the insides/anatomy of it. Plus he's a great singer too :p

ƒelicopter,

Depending on where you are in your range the creation of vocal fry varies. But vocal fry in "screams" is bsically aperiodic vibrations of the vocal folds - usually defined by subharmonics (they don't vibrate symmetrically) and therefore they create other frequencies than the natural harmonics (overtones) of what we percieve as a "clean" note. These aperiodic vibrations are what we percieve as noice/distortion.

These aperiodic vibrations are not harmful if they are produced correctly - they are just not periodic and therfore produce "noice" instead of a "clean" note.

Phil,

Thanks for your kind words.

Hey Sofus,

I always thought that kind of vibration was bad,
since the mucous membrane cannot vibrate in the wavelike motion,
as it does with regular phonation.

I heard a lot about glottal stops being bad,
other teachers teach vocal fry however - I am confused.

My interest probably comes from being told a lot of crazy stuff about singing, I do not want to get to nerdy, but I really like that kind of conversation :]

Blessings

The aperiodic vibrations of the mucosa are not harmful in themselves. It's when you constrict TOO much around the vocal folds and THEN the aperiodic vibrations occur that it can become problematic. The first signs of these constrictions are usually hoarsness (in this case it's involuntarily "hoarsness/distortion") and are most often referred to as Muscle Tension Dysphonia(MTD - Type 1) which can later on lead to ex. vocal fold nodules if you keep singing with these constrictions.

So in short, there are two ways to create these aperiodic vibrations - the right way and the wrong way.

Actually you'll experience that in almost every other sounds from classical to death metal - there's a right way and a wrong way. And it doesn't matter in what style you are singing.

A - MA - ZiNG !!

Thanks a lot, period
I am happy that you care!

You are very welcome, I like these conversations a lot myself

hey man, i actually am able to scream like that, here's one of my Vocal Covers for Through the Struggle by As i Lay Dying.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JehvP9NzJOc
well at first when i started screaming i would use growls, but they were very damaging to my voice so i looked in to Melissa Cross's zen of screaming, the videos have a few exercises on ho to start screaming but it wasnt that wasnt enough information for me on how to scream like Tim Lambesis or Randy Blythe from Lamb of God. Luckily Melissa got tons of emails stating the same thing so she made a 25 min audio mp3 going in depth with fry screaming...in the end, the correct way to fry scream is by having control over breath compression and the closure of the vocal chords, when this two are balanced, then the scream comes out without hurting at all... this book actually helped me with my screams, doing all of the exercises, specially the transcendent helped have control over the closure of the chords, thus perfecting my screamings

Hey Razoredge22 ,

That sounds cool - is it possible to to hear just your vocal track ? It's a bit hard to distinguish with the backing track and all. I'm really interested in this sound.

Also, when you do the screaming part, does it have any effect on your "clean" voice ? Eg. a slight reduction of the upper range,, loss of agility (hard to sing quick melodies) etc

Thanks in advance,
Thanos

sure, i ll c what i can do

well, im able to switch quickly between singing and screaming, but u sing too long for a while that your screams start to sound kind of crappy and thats because my body is not able to distinguish between the two and some happens with your upper range, once i start to sing at the top of my range, sometimes it switches into a scream or i start straining. there is an exercise that helps with your body distinguishing between screaming and singing

Thanks for the info man, looking forward to that clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOMqfYvtjKI&feature=channel_video_title

okay this is not the vocals by itself but you can definitely hear the scream better and clearer and thats how its supposed to sound...for some reason i cant just do the screams without any music in the background lol

That's when you need a multi-track daw and then record two channels. One channel music the other channel vocals. Then mute the music when you're done recording. Best way I know to analyze it.

We started off a death metal band and I did that with Opeth type vocals. It really helped. I got to where I could sing that way for hours without any ill effects.

But for Walk with me in Hell? Here is the master track of Randy Blythe singing that one. It really gives a good idea how he gets those effects on his voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjE2VUmgYkY