i find it much harder to make short awesome songs than long ones, i've made plenty of "epic long progessive" songs, i find they flow out a lot easier, but when you try and keep something concise and in the same theme,you have about 5-6 different ideas of where you can take the song but you can only pick one of those ideas, i find it very difficult to pick the right one as i like all the ideas, where if its a long song you could just put all the 6 ideas in.

I've been studying songwriting this last year, a little after I got into RYV and training singing seriously. Seemed like a natural combination. I totally hear you phil on the short awesome songs. I started out a guitarist writing big 8 minute instrumentals trying to be like Dream Theater, so it was a challenge getting more concise and focused songs.

I've read a number of books on songwriting and by far the best overall primer I've found is Shortcuts to Hit Songwriting by Robin Frederick. It has sections on the lyrics, music, and structure. The music part is what I find lacking in many 'how to write songs' books. The tips in this book also helped me dissect songs that I listen to a lot better and learn more from each listen.

Another great online resource is www.songu.com. They have articles and probably 6-8 interactive live instructor classes each month on various songwriting topics, but the most valuable thing of all to me is the feedback sessions where you bring your song to one of the pro songwriters and they give you feedback on all different aspects of the song. It is a pay site, about $20/month but if you consider you're getting several hours of live instruction every month is a really good deal (compared to 1 single voice lesson which costs more than that).

Once you're a bit more advanced, a good book on screenwriting is probably the next best thing. Songs really are little movies or scenes and screenwriters are some of the best at creating emotional/visual stories from words. "Story" by Robert Mckee and "Writing For Emotional Impact" are my two favorites.

random1destiny: good post, very interesting stuff.

Knowing basic music theory helps in writing a LOT! Knowing what chords are in a specific key/mode is very helpful. You can also play stuff outside of that, it helps you know how much you can break the rules and still have a coherent song. Once you learn the major scale and how chords and all 6 other modes are derived from it then you can play in any key you want easily.