Oh, and one final thing...

You have to *feel* what you're singing, have passion in your voice. If you don't, you'll sound dry, no matter what. Singing is not like reciting poems to music, feel the impact of every word you're saying and you'll find it easier to apply articulations to make it sound better.

Also, while I do not necessarily agree with Ben that you should stick to things in your range, you cannot expand your range if you do not try things outside it, you need to work things one at a time. If you don't like the way your voice sounds in the mid and low ranges, you aren't going to like it any better high.

Thanks for all the feedback guys.
First off, I dunno why I did Isn't she Lovely. It's a song I've heard like twice in my life. Actually, I have to do it for an audition soon and just wanted to see what it sounded like. I do need to learn it better, it was probably obvious that I was reading from my computer whilst doing it.

So being off-pitch is something I know I do. However I've no idea how to correct this. Whenever I ask, nobody offers any good insight. I do the singing into a tuner thing, but that doesn't translate into actual songs for me. Anyone got any other tips?

In practice, such as sirens or scales or whatever, I can hit those notes. It just doesn't work out so well in songs for some reason.

'Stuff in my range' always sounds really terrible anyway.

what you mean no one gave you insight on pitch, i told you what to do. you say you already to the singing into the tuner. well? what results do you get with the tuner? are they always perfectly in tune or are they out in the tuner?

you say it doesn't translate, you need to practice the song specifically many many times. don't expect to "one off" songs easily. pros can do it but you and I aren't at that level yet. you say "isn't she lovely" is in your upcoming audition, don't train any other song, just sing that song constantly and record every take and note where your mistakes are. aim to get your voice to match the singers in terms of pitch then it will sound like the same singer.

work out which notes are in the song in the melody and practice those notes in the same order they are in slowly and check on the tuner where your at, when you change vowels rapidly you are affecting the pitch as your breath changes or something to that effect.

i believe your mindset is the biggest barrier holding you from success.

when i felt like i was going nowhere i gave up trying to fight my voice with force and just let my voice go where it wanted in practice, no forcing no straining no matter how **** the sound was, everything sounded like falsetto this way but i didn't care. i just kept the practice like this, and i've made the best gains i've ever made in my life in a very short period of time. NO VOCAL COACH TELLS YOU THIS: that when you do sirens or wahtever your FULL VOICE will sound weak and falsettoish at first until you build the strength. when they say STAY IN FULL VOICE we just think "push our chest voice high to make it sound "unfalsettoish" but this is where it all goes wrong.

"when i felt like i was going nowhere i gave up trying to fight my voice with force and just let my voice go where it wanted in practice, no forcing no straining no matter how **** the sound was, everything sounded like falsetto this way but i didn't care. i just kept the practice like this, and i've made the best gains i've ever made in my life in a very short period of time. NO VOCAL COACH TELLS YOU THIS: that when you do sirens or wahtever your FULL VOICE will sound weak and falsettoish at first until you build the strength. when they say STAY IN FULL VOICE we just think "push our chest voice high to make it sound "unfalsettoish" but this is where it all goes wrong."


So true. Same here.

I can not agree more! I had the very same experience. Now that I don't fight my voice I am much happier with how I sound. I sing in front of crowds on a regular basis now.

Dude, I wasn't saying for him to only ever sing songs that are currently in his range. I was saying that if you try to sing something outside of your range you will be straining, hurting your voice, and it's gonna sound like crap. Use the exercises to increase your range. When you are capable of singing higher songs then sing them. It's ok to sing a song if there are a few notes out of your range. What is not smart is to try to sing it if most of the song is out of your range. I wasn't telling him that he will never sing higher or lower than he does now. It takes patience. I know it sounds laughable but some notes that James Taylor sings used to be too high for me. Once I got the strength and coordination down it seems silly because those songs are so easy to sing now. I can sing a LOT higher and lower than I used to be able to, but it took me time. One thing I noticed is that until I know a song intimately including every note and lyric by memory it sounds terrible. That will really help you. It is helpful for me to do lip bubbles or hum a song to learn the melody until I can get the lyrics down. It helps me nail the placement and I know what notes I'm supposed to sing. It's a good warm up for me anyway.

Well, whatever works for each person I guess, as I actually realised that not by doing exercises but by listening to singers doing it (Warrel Dane, to be precise). Then, I could finally apply the exercises properly, I just couldn't understand the placement without hearing it in action.

hi alkis, how long have you trained voice, and was it exclusively with RYV method?

Hey Phil,

tough question. I have been singing and making noises with my voice since I was a young kid, including a fairly short stint in a choir, where I learnt some of the principles of chest placement etc. Other than that, I only really started training 6 years ago, when I discovered RYV.

More than that, I am lazy, I cannot say that I have truly been following RYV, I have been doing some of the exercises, on and off, basically when I feel that I'm hitting a plateau. I'm sure I would have had far faster and more consistent progress had I actually been following the program properly.

The thing is, what I enjoy doing is actual singing. If I can't apply what I'm doing to that, I get bored quickly and that's possibly my biggest failing. On the other hand, all the exercises make more sense after I finally understand the principles involved and every single time I've needed to hear a singer employing them clearly for that to happen.

In 2004, when I first bought RYV, my vocal style was far different than my style now. I basically had two voices, a baritone low to mid voice and a resonant distorted falsetto with added grit for everything else. I could not even comprehend how the two could possibly be related, let alone bridged. Hearing Jaime doing sirens and transcending voice exercises made me realise that it must be possible but I still had great problems doing any of it without breaking.

My first break came when I heard John K (currently in Biomechanical) shift controllably and smoothly from falsetto to head voice in No Place Like Home by Balance of Power. That illustrated the principle in terms I could understand, singing.

However, I still didn't understand head voice itself, I could not access it or get how it would work. That's when I discovered Nevermore's Warrel Dane, who has a *very* low voice yet sings resonant high notes (and I'm not talking about his falsetto screams). Singing his songs I realised how to access head voice. The problem before was that most singers I'd listen to that sing high were tenors. Their shift happened higher than mine and I just didn't get it. That's also when sirens finally started making sense to me. I've done millions of them by now, either on their own or by singing lines that include similar vocal constructs.


Basically, I went from this:
http://www.myspace.com/knightsofsteelandthunder (listen to Dragon's Rage)
To this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yayZKEpPZSc

Regrets? Well, mainly the fact that it would have been far quicker had I done the method properly from start to finish. And the fact that I've completely forgotten how I used to do my falsetto screams, they had a nice grit that I could maintain for hours without hurting my voice.

I still have a long long way to go, but at least I'm having fun. :-P

Wow! That was quite an improvement! Your voice was pretty good before, but it sounds great now. I could imagine buying your cds. :)

yeah, you've come a long way, here's to the future