Please don't hurt me, but even though he wasn't mentioned, I just wanted to share my opinion...Geoff Tate sucks. :)

Thanks for sharing this. Stan, why don't you like Geoff Tate?

Ya know, everyone is so fascinated by this guy for some reason, but I don't know what's so great about him. I was just listening to Queensryche, so that's why I brought it up... I don't like his tone, and he's too operatic. Almost like Bruce Dickinson, but Bruce can do a lot more with his voice and has a much better tone. I just don't know what the hype is :)

But anyway, back to that article... I'm surprised she gave King Diamond a somewhat positive critique. I love KD, but I find him annoying sometimes... and she thought so too, lol.

I think both Geoff Tate and King Diamond annoy people for the same reason, singing quite high most of the time. At least none of my friends share my music taste when it comes to Queensryche or KD/MF. But I like KD, he has made interesting music for a long time.

My favourite KD songs are: The Poltergeist, Behind the Walls, House of God. I don't know MF discography so well so I mention only Is that you Melissa?

If KD sang more often in full voice, he would kick some butt...

but hey, I don't like Axl Rose ;) Maybe we should start a thread about "most hated" singers :)

King Diamond would top my list of least-liked singers.

Geoff Tate would be at the top of my 'favorites' list.

Geoff sucks now but in the 80's you would be hard pressed to find a more versitile singer. He was a monster.

I'll admit, Geoff is okay... but only on Operation Mindcrime, it's the only Queensryche album I like, and he sounds pretty good... but just not my taste.

Not surprisingly, Bruce tops the list. He is the essential metal singer, in my opinion. One of my biggest influences. And his showmanship is awesome.

Really? I'm surprised to hear that; The Warning was much more acrobatic and his voice had more power all throughout. In my opinion Mindcrime was the beginning of the end of his "good" voice.

I don't even know how much the teacher of the classical singing can be objective to comment on the Metal singers if she has never taught in that style. No classical teacher would be ever able to teach you how to sing the Metal compositions(e.g. Masterplan and whole 10^6 other Power/Vocal centered Metal bands; not to mention extreme styles) if they're not really specialized in that area of singing which by itself is a whole lot more comprehensive, wider and uncomparable ground of singing as opposed to the classical; it's like you're comparing the kindergarden to the College/Academy - no offense. Metal produced uncomparable amount of vocal talents; waaay above any other genre and most of them were and are self-taught. So if some of them have teachers, they're mostly there to help them maintain their voice condition - nothing more.

"No classical teacher would be ever able to teach you how to sing the Metal compositions"

You mean like Jaime? Sure he does not come off as a classical teacher, but almost every exercise he has comes from such background.
The powerpush for instance is practiced alot in several classicalteachings.

"Metal produced uncomparable amount of vocal talents; waaay above any other genre and most of them were and are self-taught"

This is also in my mind false, singing is a matter of taste period. Not everyone like listening to highpitchsingers and distortion.

Absolutely n-o-t false if you look and analyze from the objective aspect(historically) - in which genre males voice actually progressed most and what kind of singers were always the ones that moved the boundaries above and higher if we would compare! Don't forget that once you can actually sing so much versatile and powerful, you're actually able to sing anything and everything if you devote enough time and effort - ANYTHING!
And I'm also pleased she admitted the same if you look the credit she gave.. and the guy sent her only a small percentage of talents!
Reread her walkthrough and you'll realize that she mostly doesn't even know what to review (except KD)
And the comments about their unbalances - just a prigging :D

@Jens So to be able to teach the extreme styles of singing Jaime also needed a lot more work , knowledge and progress through a lot more comprehensive field than the pure classical singers way[e.g. 100 books he mentioned including the voice anatomy, health, maintenance]. I do know how much the classical singer can progress and how limited they are, personally I was working with the recognized classical teacher for some period and believe me you won't get far with their "medieval" approach.

I saw Tate back in october and he rocked. He's not one of my favorite singers but he did an amazing job and owned the audience.


Yes my approach to training stems directly from classical, but I think I get a lot of metal students because I grew up loving and singing hard rock/. Still I apply the same techniques to metal, classical, country, pop, rap, etc. with nuances that differ a bit from style to style;)

Where there other bands you went to see?



I would disagree and agree with this. Yes people usually like singers based on personal tastes but there are singers who are better than others. Going beyond tastes, I would have no problem saying Jorn Lande is better than Britney Spears. I'm sure there are other singers who could out him as well.

I am not a big fan of the classical but about 4 months ago I was watching a duet. The flawless jumps from note to at such a rapid rate blew my mind. Their voices never cracked and no matter what note they were singing it was full with power. I probably have a greater range than both of them but anyone in there right mind would never say I was a better singer.

Yes john king, but still the majority of people favours britney spears above jorn :P
Then who's to tell wich one is better?

heavy metal singers are the best. that is all.

People who know the art and technique of singing. I'm not going to let a Zoologist work on my car. so I'm not going to let the masses, most of whom know nothing about singing, tell me who is better.


Britney is so better lol

I was there to hang with the Gillette's. Lita did a special guest appearance thing with the Ryche for a few months.

I find amazing singers in all styles. As a coach that mainly works to help singers build their instrument, I get a chance to hear a lot of different styles, and they all have their strengths. You want to be a better singer??? Open your mind and check out singers from ALL styles guys;)

Britney Spears still sucks. :)

Stan,

That's YOUR personal view!!

PLEASE LEAVE ALL PERSONAL PREFERENCE OUT WHEN DISCUSSING VOCAL TECHNIQUE!

Actually what is missing here is the singers perspective...

Is Britney happy with her vocals? Are Tate? Are Halford? Are Diamond? etc...

We don't know....BUT THEY know! And that's the point. In regards to teaching voice - it's the singers own goal about vocal "satisfaction" that has to be fulfilled NOT ours....period!

John so you mean that an education is needed to be able to tell if a singer is good or not?

This is not how it works, sure you can from a technical point of view say that for instance jorn has better voicetechnique.

Take an apple and an orange go around and let people taste, you will get diffrent answears depending on who tastes.

I think that if singer A is MUCH, MUCH better technically than singer B, then singer A is pretty much obviously a better (technical) singer. But if they are close, I don't think you can really tell because there are so many factors involved in determining what defines a good singer - such as range, feel, phrasing, power, just to name a few.

No, not at all. If a person is not well verse in a particular field, it is almost certainly taste and not a matter of discerning technique. To say someone is a better singer than someone is to say they ARE better, as in they can sing better. To prefer one singer to another is not saying (although in their mind it maybe) that one singer is better than the other. What is reality and what is preference are two very different things.


Again this is a matter of taste. A debate of whether or not the apple or orange was a food, simply would not carry any weight. However whether or not it is better for you would. Again there is better and then there is taste.

yes john king but some people will be needing the vitamins from the apple hence the apple is "better" and other maybe lack vitamin C so the ornage will be alot better :P
"What is reality and what is preference are two very different things."
Yes i completly agree, but we dont all percieve reality the same way and listen for the same stuff. Thats why it's very hard to "rank" singers or genres.

There are no universal way to grade singers, and people will always disagree on who's the better singer ect, thats the way it is and will always be. Everything in singing is about taste, heck just look at other coultures their singing is often not even in the same page as ours even has a bigger span of usable notes wich we consider "false".

C'mon Jens just give up man, neither I'd like to offend but the thing is that subjectivity is an argument of fear, small knowledge and back up for the limited horizons; What it means to be objective is to hear all the other styles of music as long you're expanding yourself in every level of life and you DO know and understand what is really better!.. C'mon man you're not even a metal or musically progressive fan, you'd understand how superior this style is to any kind of crapload in todays media if you'd be clear. Metal is deeply and technically as emotionally connected with the roots in Blues, Jazz, and the most importantly Classical music[e.g. Wagner]. So it contains the best from the best roots music has ever had in our humankind history of creativity... It has incredible amount of positive energy (for positive people) and kind of enlightenment spiritual power that no music has today! In fact if you're a bit educated and intelligent you'd understand that todays there is no even actually real music available or given in the media, everything is lost from the spirit to the message[heard about "I missed 80's" comments]. It's all about money and more of blinding limited people who're in >=95% worlds population and makes such audience and profit repository for them so that such crap can and will exist for eternity [it's simpler to attract with controversy than an intelligent and meaningful music; that's where stupidity parts it's way with the clear and powered mind for the better]- human nature is really sad, we want better and we're drowning ourselves in blind thrash of our limits we can actually break easily and open our eyes to see the whole beauty of the world and possibilities. Heavy Metal is better and s-u-p-e-r-i-o-r music style and more than a music as you may have heard (it's not the style of life, to enligthen some limited thoughts far more greater) in comparison of anything that has an attribute of popular - that is why it isn't -> it's for the chosen ones, not for the >=90% [Heaven is for chosen ones, Hell for the most!]... There are punk fans and bad styles also in this style as we know - Truth: They Are Not REAL picture of what's true about whole paradigm but they present just an great (false)argument for the limited ones so they could feel better in they tiny world by saying 'look the satanist on the way' or drug worshipers (I've listened to so many such blind and limited people that really don't understand a bit of how much better this world is outside of their boundaries );Evil is everywhere- I'm not saying you should worship metal to feel better if you again interpreted that limitedly but to worship styles with higher values (e.g. old Hip Hop, Rap[Read TupacShakur lyrics - he was really one of the few] and of course Classical music, Blues, Jazz, soul, New Age, Lateral), music with message, meaning, inside spirit... Than if you're a todays popular "music" fan I can with 100% percentage be assured that you wouldn't and couldn't be able to speak clear and meaningful statement and even make a relevant argument about its "value", "meaning" and point ... Why? It doesn't exist in your "music". In your subconscious, deep down where the truth lies you know that you're listening to the speechless, limited and bad music without message and value not to mention other psychological effects that bad music has on your mind by also creating limited patterns in you [just as too much amount of watching TV nails your mind in a bit of time]. In those situations with 100% fact I've seen only a speechless people without any clear thought of what they're going to say to me when I ask them about their obviously post90's MTV labeled thrash - THEY ARE SPEECHLESS; when I confront them with arguments - "Ohh isn't it all about subjectivity" -> Not if you're not like the most people! I've read her article and in a bit of moment I felt how she credits with high respect to the Metal singers and admits they're really far above anything she has ever heard of. The point of my writing is, don't live and think like many -> you won't get far !

Thank you for reading.

revelation,

No offense, but I really hope that you'll NEVER start teaching voice -because your view is completely narrowminded.

It's not[irony], thanks for reading.

"C'mon man you're not even a metal or musically progressive fan"

No I just sing in a progressive metalband because I hate it...



Alkis finaly someone who sums up my thoughts with fewer word! ;)

Jens my friend, shall we agree to disagree.

With which part? That singing is about taste? Of course it is, like all art, that's an indisputable fact. If it wasn't, every singer with good or even great technique would be amazing to listen to. Quite a few have impeccable technique and are boring as hell, as they don't really know what to do with it.

No you are wrong, heck im a metalgeek but even i can admit that other genre's produce atleast just as good singers as metal or rock in general.
Just check out the singers in the musical scene, Gospel, Soul...

Well most rock singers arent that versatile, they know there ****, but would sound crap in an other genre.

The "medival" approach is thesedays workedinto almost all new approaches to vocaltechnique, I mean comeon...
Breathtechnique is medival?

Im not gonna go intothis anydeeper you are to narrowminded, once you understand singing is a matter of taste then come and we can talk.

"I'm a metalgeek" - Oh really, please to meet you

Again You are, and all the way my friend :D; you obviously don't understand the word of what I'm talking about... I mean what're you talking about :) , you're totally misunderstanding everything... while I'm saying and covering with facts something that is true in terms of technique and performance progression in this area; you're lying in your subjective/taste box and by wrong/missed interpretation of my words waste your own time.. I labeled it as medieval in that means if you want to learn higher standards of singing only within classical approach so you do need a lot more knowledge and progression from that style, bro step out from the box - I mean you don't understand a heck of what I'm talking about, so please man stop bothering; you're acting more like a Britney's fan than a singer without offense :D

Metal and rock does not produce better singers than any other genre, since it's all a matter of taste.
Thats basicly what i am saying... If your speaking strictly vocaltechnque sure then you can say rocksingers are better.
But vocaltechnique and who's a better Singer is two diffrent things.

"you're acting more like a Britney's fan than a singer without offense :D"

Britney rocks best singer on earth!

Im not gonna bother you anymore... stay in your box

No offense intended but metalheads are really well known for being stubborn and idolize the music they like. The fact that metal produces better singers is obviously pretentious, don´t get me wrong, I love metal, and metal singers kick ass but, that affirmation is way too much. Better singers in rock music perhaps.

Yeah, I think you (MetalVocalist) are elevating Metal higher than it is.

when she said "i wish rob halford would come to me for lessons" or somethign to that effect i'm thinking "whoa hold on" halfords fine the way he is! all of these dudes are, why do they need "extra training?" remove the little mistakes and they become boring and "too perfect"

yeah phil, but thats whats opera is about :D