THE VOICE CONNECTION
SOUND OFF

Welcome to The Voice Connection Sound Off; a forum for users of books like Raise Your Voice, Melody to Madness, The Ultimate Breathing Workout, and Unleash Your Creative Mindset, as well as a place for Vendera Vocal Academy members to interact.

This message board was created so that singers could come together and "sound off" to help support each other during vocal development and the creative process of unleashing the creative spark that occurs when writing and producing music. Currently, myself and vocal coaches Ben Valen, Ray West, and Ryan Wall are here to respond periodicially to your questions, with new vocal coaches coming soon. But, feel free to help each other too:)

This board is here for you to ask questions about my and my fellow coach's books, videos, and MP3 programs, as well as offer others help with our vocal techniques. You may also post videos of yourself and your band to share your music and ask for critiques.

Please refrain from negative comments, profanities, spamming, and inappropriate criticisms of vocal methodologies, vocal coaches, and singers. All negative posts will be deleted and subject to banning without question. I will not respond to negative posts, because, as Mark Twain once said, “Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” With that said, positive criticism is welcome because that is how you'll grow as a singer during the training process.


The Voice Connection - Sound Off
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Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

I am at work so I cannot comment directly on the video, as it is blocked. I am no expert on grit but in my experiece there is always wear and tear regardless of grit or not. If done properly there is no lasting wear and tear, if done improply, don't plan on having a long career.

The vocal folds after being used for long periods of time start to swell. This swelling makes it harder and harder to be vocally agile and will cause loss of range, depending on the amount of swelling. Now the folds oscillate/vibrate, when clean singing this movement is small. However, when producing grit this movement is greater causing more strain and causing the folds to swell quicker.

This isn't always damaging, if done right. Compare it to lifting weights clean singing is like lifting 100 pounds, gritty singing is like 300. Clean is like endurance and grit is like strength training. Grit tires the fold out quicker.

Do it right you can sing grit day after day. Do it wrong say bye bye to your voice.

Here's some tips I've picked from learning grit.
Vocal fry, vocal fry, vocal fry. When you are doing VF, invision your head as a tunnel and the sound is echoing through this tunnel. Make sure the vocal fry is very low volume, increase the resonance not the volume and remember to lock the breath support down forcefully, no straining though.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

Well I think what he says about grit it´s true, when you just start experimenting with it, it hurts!. As Mark Baxter explains, what causes the more damage to the voice is the muscles constricting to avoid vocal damage, and until whe train the voice to somehow "trust" we are not gonna hurt it, or in other words we´re not gonna push it too much, we do, but it gets easier, saver and less damaging with practice. Melissa Cross warns not to do it for more than 5 or 10 minutes a day...

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

John King and Go,

Again, what you are saying comes from ignorance!

If done correctly: Grit/distortion is NOT damaging to the vocal folds...there are no wear and tear what so ever...

You like the lip-bubbles right? And you consider them as "safe"! But did you know that one of the grit/distortion approaches is build on the exact princible as the lip-bubbles??

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

Hmm I still disagree. I still say there is more wear and tear on the vocal folds than regular clean singing. It's like working a muscle clean singing you can run a mile but with grit singing you can only do a few leg presses. I find this the same with whistle it's more work in less time. Not that it's damaging it's just a harder workout.


Maybe Jaime would be able to comment on this.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

John King,

Yes, you disagree...fair enough. But do you have actually facts that supports your view that grit/distortion will have a tear and wear effect on the vocal folds??

I'll bet you....you can't find even one research that supports that!

So, it's all about your own opinion....and is that universal or reliable? Nope...

But here is a video that supports the fact, that grit/distortion CAN be done in a healthy way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJu_BQrfk3E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqXYR07WgE&feature=related

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

I think we are misunderstanding each other when saying wear and tear. I'm not saying grit (if done properly) will destroy you voice; I'm saying it will wear it out quicker. Well I could very well be wrong, I may not be doing it right. All I know is when I do grit it is tiring, it's not painful and I can speak fine afterward. Same happens when I do whistle it wears me out.

This all could be due to fact that I've have been very lazy for the past 3 months or so and not practicing. I'm losing range and I have to sing Bring Him Home - Les Miserable at a concert in June lol.

Anyway ironically enough I have my vocal lessons at 7:00pm it is 6:30 here. I'll have to watch your videos when I get home later.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

I think that dude is one of those Bret Manning minions who sings just to get chicks.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

@Sofus987,

I watched the videos and I bow to your brilliance. I also tried the technique, I believe I was doing this all along I just engaged the true folds to much to produce grit. Thanks for the videos.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

Stan
I think that dude is one of those Bret Manning minions who sings just to get chicks.


lol

He seems like a nice guy but I do get a vibe from him. It's funny how he cut his hair like Brett's.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

I think you misunderstood Sofus, there has to be a way to do it correctly and save, BUT I think what the guy is trying to point out is that when you start practicing it and trying to find a way to do it correctly, it can be a little damaging for your voice because as Melissa Cross says, the chances are you might be doing it all wrong. That´s why I think it´s important to warn to the vocal student not doing it too much when he´s starting, until he learns how to do it technically right.

Re: "there is never a perfect way to sing rock"

Well grit or distortion as i like to call it, is done by the falsefolds. Use loads of twang and you will be alright, I can scream for hours without feeling anything in my throat. If you loose your twang on the other hand things can get alittle dirty since all the pressure you builded to get the falsefolds moving first will hit the regular folds. This does not happen if you use alot of twang and you can basicly add as much distortion as you want without feeling a thing.