Baums Rush's rudder was an Idasailor. I got into an argument on the Sailnet MacGregor list over the reliability problems with some guy from Idasailor. His defense was that they replace them for free. Everybody I personally know that had an Idasailor rudder has had problems. But in their defense, plenty of people swear by them. I know I'll never trust them. I still have my stock rudder, which has gone through a lot in it's 11 seasons of sailing and is still going strong.

Billy broke a stock rudder on his X when we were sailing from Chub Cay to Andros in ten foot waves last year, but it was the morning after it was grounded severely sideways in a strong tidal current which damaged it. Then the surfing down those waves finished it off. Can't blame MacGregor for that one.

Not to add fuel to the fire but I too had one of the early IdaSailors like Kip's (the two piece rivited design) and it also failed. Joel did send a new one piece design the next day but it sounds like there are a lot more failures than I realized.

In answer to Chip's question- They have an inlarged surface area that extends forward of the center of pivot, this adds steering surface and the positive pressure on the front part of the foil takes some of the effort out of steering, also they have a true foil shape that causes less drag.

Sounds like we need the same foil shape, but made from fiberglass to add the strength needed for our boats. I allmost brought my factory rudder on the trip but did notdue to the weight.

Larry

One of the Miami Macs also had an IdaSailor rudder break. I think these are HDPE plastic with no reinforcement fiberglass.

Kip's and Wade's rudders, both of which I got an opportunity to fix, appeared to be HDPE and were certainly not reinforced in any way. Wade's was a two piece laminated design which delaminated, while as I recall Kip's was a single piece, which broke off just below the bracket.

For what it's worth, the drag reduction of a "true foil" shape (assuming the claim is true) might be of some benefit in a highly tuned racing boat where gains of a few seconds per mile are considered significant. In a cruising boat, it's marketing BS.

Rudder forces too high may be an indication of a mistuned rig. Make sure the rig is properly tuned first. Though a rudder with larger forward surface reduces the steering effort and the loads on some of the other components, it actually increases the loads on the rudder itself, and that might be what's causing so many of these to break.

Assuming the rig is properly tuned, you can reduce the rudder effort by modifying the bracket stops to allow the rudder to pivot further forward when it's pulled all the way down.

In my book, for cruisers especially but for racers as well, having your stuff hold together is infinitely more important than any supposed (and trust me, truly minimal) drag reduction.

You may also want to ask John how much that free next day replacement rudder cost him. Based on all the experience, there's no way I'd have one of those rudders on my boat with no back up.

You can take the IdaSailor rudder and stick it where the sun don't shine. I'll keep it as a VERY expensive spare and a learning experance. It doesn't even make a good anchor . Baums Rush.....

Couldn't have said it better myself, John, though since I don't own one I didn't feel right exercising that degree of frankness.

I JUST purchased and installed my New Idasalor rudder... havent even tried it yet...

too bad I drilled it last weekend...

-So can I ask you...How did it feel, right up until it broke? -Any warnings?

I was thinking of modifying the stock one, now that I didn't need it... lol....

Think I can add some west system and get the same effect? pour some epoxy in the rudder and coat everything, build it up a bit.... then add 2" to leading edge...

Where does it break? clean just under the bracket?

Must be a wild ride when that happens... did anyone get hurt when that happend? and I'll bet it breaks when it roughest. yikes!

Frankly the only reason I got it was for the northern fronts during the winter...

"In my book, for cruisers especially but for racers as well, having your stuff hold together is infinitely more important than any supposed (and trust me, truly minimal) drag reduction."

I so agree,
nature can be so unforgiving.

I'm not part of this forum but not for any specific reason. I would like to comment on the number of pop ups and crap that flashes on my screen. I couldn't put up with this for another second. Might want to look at who's carrying your web page.
Steve

That's why they make pop-up blockers.

Yes, after knowing those things it caught my interest. It makes me stop playing website and subway surfers click here and read a few articles about it. Same question I am trying to understand, What's the theoretical benefit of these rudders? Hmmmm

Congrats Chief… glad to hear your back on the water again.

Post some pictures on the web page so we can see the after.

Looks like it did before all the crap happened . Just got back from a week end of sailing on a local lake, slept on board Friday night and Saturday night just got home 17:30 Sunday. Everthing works again I need to tighten up the stays a little is the only thing. Baums Rush

John,
great news to hear you are good to go again! Nothing can keep a dedicated sailor from his mission.

Here are some ramblings on the rudder issue, based on experience with a 26D, applicable to the other Macs, maybe, your mileage may vary.

While not related to John's rudder incident, I wanted to point out that if a Mac 26D rudder is not all the way down, but slipped up towards horizontal, instead of fully down, there are tremendous loads on the rudder head. I do not have an Ida rudder, but was wondering if the slickness of the rudder head could cause a tendency of the rudder to creep towards horizontal and trigger a break.

I did what Chip said some time ago; redrilled the rudder so that the tip is now forward of where it was orginally. This helped balance the rudder some. Also agree strongly on Chip's rig tuning comment; raking the mast forward some to balance the sail plan works. Finally, having the dagger board down actually helps with excessive rudder load on a 26D, which is counter intuitive. It does cause more heel, but easing the main seems to work in combination with these other things for me, though reefing the main when you first think of it is the cardinal rule to making the dingy stay on its feet. ( Mac's really are just overgrown dingies, sensitive and hungry for constant attention, but responsive)

Fall winds are finally here on Lanier, 10-20 today and same predictied tomorrow!

Fair winds!