andrew

Jul 18, 07 - 3:13 PM

what do they know?

hi steve and hello to everyone on this board. i haven't posted on here before but when i first started recovery a few years ago i did have a couple of conversations with you steve. i just want to say thanks mate, we probably only spoke once or twice but you were a brilliant voice of reason in an insane situation when i was smack bang in the middle of the 'emergency stage' and everywhere felt like a scene from invasion of the bodysnatchers!

i hope the slight table-bashing tone of this post doesn't offend anyone, i certainly don't mean to tell anyone here anything they already know.

my main reason for posting here (apart from having an obvious vent!) is to address the issue of education, or raising awareness. i feel a huge part of the problem in moving forward with any of this is the global ignorance and misinformation (or as i like to call it, lies!) around the nature of child abuse, it's causes and it's effects.

i don't know if it's the same for all survivors, but it is a particular beef of mine. the number of times when disclosing or even just discussing child abuse i've come up against pointless statistics, certain learned expressions and oft repeated nonsensical phrases employed to rationalise or minimise.

my view is that sexualising children is the original sin - its the worlds only problem. by that i mean that whatever trouble is going on in the world -wars, any criminal activity, addiction, political or religious disharmony, any embedded cultural problems, any violence, sexual immorality and dysfunction, whatever you can think of - child abuse will be lurking somewhere at the root of it.

i know that personal recovery is and should be the prime aim of every incest and child abuse survivor, but it's made all the more difficult by a a world with cultural values that perpetuate old wives tales, these 'lies' in turn provide a nice little smokescreen that allows it to continue. as long as we live in a world distorted by sexual abuse, personal recovery is only partially possible. we are fighting a losing battle and will continue to do so untill such time as the truths surrounding this UBIQUITOUS problem is out.

there was a body around for a while called 'accuracy about abuse' but they folded. after four years of up & downs in recovery i would like to try to get involved in doing something to educate people and blow the myths and lies apart with the facts. a little bit of psychological awareness is the key to knowing who you are, not something for snobs and the priviliged, so it never fails to get my goat when people say 'what are you, a psychiatrist?' in reply to any line of conversation that contains too much personal insight for them.

i have absolutely no idea where to start or how to go about it, should it be a website? a rally? a book? giving talks? but i want to be involved in opening this up so everyone can see whats really going on. if anyone feels the same please let me know or if you have any ideas steve that'd be great, alternatively if there's anything i can do for swindon survivors.....

despite emerging from recovery with a greater awareness of some of my problems and the ability to alter how i deal with them, my abusive chilhood (mother, father, step-father, grandfather, grandmother's 2nd husband) has left me with the sense that very little actually means anything. not so with this, this means everything.

andrew

§tèvë

Jul 18th, 2007 - 9:20 PM

Re: what do they know?

Hey Andrew

Real good to hear from you mate and hope that life is treating you good?

As you know, I fully agree with you and have worked to break the barriers down around child sexual abuse and especially male survivors of abuse.

When people minimise the damage done by sexual abuse, I always check what their motives are and where the hell they think they're coming from, in telling me what I think and know to be fact, after all my years of listening to so many men telling me the history of the abuse they suffered and survived.

I saw that AAA had closed down a while back, which was sad, as Margery Orr was a good lady and although a journalist and horoscope reader by trade, she was a good ally to have on our side

I’m not sure where she is at the moment either, but hope she’s still passing the message on, via her site, which is still live, but her email address is dead.

Where to start? Come to Manchester in Saturday 15th Sept and speak out there about your plans mate and in doing so, meet some more amazing people, including me!

Keep fighting back Andrew and the next time I come up your way, I'll do my best to pop over (I was in D&G a few weeks back, for a quick visit)

Take it easy fella

§tèvë

andrew

Jul 19th, 2007 - 12:39 AM

Re: what do they know?

hi steve, i have a feeling that i'm not the andrew you think i am but it doesn't matter, thanks for your warm reply anyway. we spoke a couple of times at the beginning of 2004 and i'm sure you've spoken to many since!

the rally/march thing sounds great, and manchester is not too far so yeah, i'll look forward to it.

when i lived in london i went along to quite a few SIA meetings and i thought they were wonderful but everything still felt underground if you know what i mean, safe, supportive and affirming but sealed in with a tendecy towards preaching to the converted (but without the preaching of course!). this is not a slight on SIA as i loved going there.

i haven't really got any fresh ideas or angles, in fact i noticed you've pretty much listed all the myths on this website, if you've left anything out it's probably in a book by mike lew or laura davis/ellen bass, and all this information is thankfully now becoming more accessable to those of us who are looking for it.

but it's THEM out there in the mainstream that need to know. we need to obliterate this perception of incest and child abuse as just another awful crime or social problem among many, and uncover the truth, which is that fundamentaly it is THE only social problem we have. it's so deeply woven or tightly knitted into the fabric of society because it's been going on since humans first started worshipping idols.

the generation behind us was the last to keep shtum. the chances of our generation seeing a world that even accepts it has a problem (let alone change it!) are nil. but we can start the process towards that if we can find ways of educating (i hate the authority of that word, lol!) by raising awareness of the facts and destroying the myths. it was done sort of successfully with aids and with global warming to a lesser degree, it can be done with this but those with the means aren't interested.

does this mean that somehow we have to get the ball rolling?

like a lot of people in recovery, i found that once i was aware of the exact nature of the psychic/emotional wound that is inflicted on us when we are abused, it's effects in later life and the impact that it has on the world around us, or as i like to call it, 'our dysfunction footprint', life stopped being confusing. it didn't get any easier, it got harder in fact, but it wasn't confusing any more.

this should happen on a global scale not just for individuals. it may be impossible to achieve but i'm in no doubt that it needs to happen and until such time all we are doing is plate-spinning.

thanks for being patient and letting me go on a bit,

andrew.

§tèvë

Jul 19th, 2007 - 6:15 PM

OOPS!

Hi Andrew

Asuumptions go a long way! Sorry mate, I thought by it wasnt, but hey! Good to know that you're still fighing back mate.

Mike Lew, Ellen and Laura? All three are known to me and I'm more than lucky to have the honour of counting Mike as a good friend and ally of mine, for more years than I care to mention.

Make sure you catch me eye and speak when at the March/Rally mate, as it would be good to see you and have a real chat, as it would be good to have a chat mate

Stay safe

§tèvë

andrew

Jul 22nd, 2007 - 7:41 PM

Re: what do they know?

will do, nice one, see ya there.

drew.

Author	Comment
andrew Jul 18, 07 - 3:13 PM	what do they know? hi steve and hello to everyone on this board. i haven't posted on here before but when i first started recovery a few years ago i did have a couple of conversations with you steve. i just want to say thanks mate, we probably only spoke once or twice but you were a brilliant voice of reason in an insane situation when i was smack bang in the middle of the 'emergency stage' and everywhere felt like a scene from invasion of the bodysnatchers! i hope the slight table-bashing tone of this post doesn't offend anyone, i certainly don't mean to tell anyone here anything they already know. my main reason for posting here (apart from having an obvious vent!) is to address the issue of education, or raising awareness. i feel a huge part of the problem in moving forward with any of this is the global ignorance and misinformation (or as i like to call it, lies!) around the nature of child abuse, it's causes and it's effects. i don't know if it's the same for all survivors, but it is a particular beef of mine. the number of times when disclosing or even just discussing child abuse i've come up against pointless statistics, certain learned expressions and oft repeated nonsensical phrases employed to rationalise or minimise. my view is that sexualising children is the original sin - its the worlds only problem. by that i mean that whatever trouble is going on in the world -wars, any criminal activity, addiction, political or religious disharmony, any embedded cultural problems, any violence, sexual immorality and dysfunction, whatever you can think of - child abuse will be lurking somewhere at the root of it. i know that personal recovery is and should be the prime aim of every incest and child abuse survivor, but it's made all the more difficult by a a world with cultural values that perpetuate old wives tales, these 'lies' in turn provide a nice little smokescreen that allows it to continue. as long as we live in a world distorted by sexual abuse, personal recovery is only partially possible. we are fighting a losing battle and will continue to do so untill such time as the truths surrounding this UBIQUITOUS problem is out. there was a body around for a while called 'accuracy about abuse' but they folded. after four years of up & downs in recovery i would like to try to get involved in doing something to educate people and blow the myths and lies apart with the facts. a little bit of psychological awareness is the key to knowing who you are, not something for snobs and the priviliged, so it never fails to get my goat when people say 'what are you, a psychiatrist?' in reply to any line of conversation that contains too much personal insight for them. i have absolutely no idea where to start or how to go about it, should it be a website? a rally? a book? giving talks? but i want to be involved in opening this up so everyone can see whats really going on. if anyone feels the same please let me know or if you have any ideas steve that'd be great, alternatively if there's anything i can do for swindon survivors..... despite emerging from recovery with a greater awareness of some of my problems and the ability to alter how i deal with them, my abusive chilhood (mother, father, step-father, grandfather, grandmother's 2nd husband) has left me with the sense that very little actually means anything. not so with this, this means everything. andrew
§tèvë Jul 18th, 2007 - 9:20 PM	Re: what do they know? Hey Andrew Real good to hear from you mate and hope that life is treating you good? As you know, I fully agree with you and have worked to break the barriers down around child sexual abuse and especially male survivors of abuse. When people minimise the damage done by sexual abuse, I always check what their motives are and where the hell they think they're coming from, in telling me what I think and know to be fact, after all my years of listening to so many men telling me the history of the abuse they suffered and survived. I saw that AAA had closed down a while back, which was sad, as Margery Orr was a good lady and although a journalist and horoscope reader by trade, she was a good ally to have on our side I’m not sure where she is at the moment either, but hope she’s still passing the message on, via her site, which is still live, but her email address is dead. Where to start? Come to Manchester in Saturday 15th Sept and speak out there about your plans mate and in doing so, meet some more amazing people, including me! Keep fighting back Andrew and the next time I come up your way, I'll do my best to pop over (I was in D&G a few weeks back, for a quick visit) Take it easy fella §tèvë
andrew Jul 19th, 2007 - 12:39 AM	Re: what do they know? hi steve, i have a feeling that i'm not the andrew you think i am but it doesn't matter, thanks for your warm reply anyway. we spoke a couple of times at the beginning of 2004 and i'm sure you've spoken to many since! the rally/march thing sounds great, and manchester is not too far so yeah, i'll look forward to it. when i lived in london i went along to quite a few SIA meetings and i thought they were wonderful but everything still felt underground if you know what i mean, safe, supportive and affirming but sealed in with a tendecy towards preaching to the converted (but without the preaching of course!). this is not a slight on SIA as i loved going there. i haven't really got any fresh ideas or angles, in fact i noticed you've pretty much listed all the myths on this website, if you've left anything out it's probably in a book by mike lew or laura davis/ellen bass, and all this information is thankfully now becoming more accessable to those of us who are looking for it. but it's THEM out there in the mainstream that need to know. we need to obliterate this perception of incest and child abuse as just another awful crime or social problem among many, and uncover the truth, which is that fundamentaly it is THE only social problem we have. it's so deeply woven or tightly knitted into the fabric of society because it's been going on since humans first started worshipping idols. the generation behind us was the last to keep shtum. the chances of our generation seeing a world that even accepts it has a problem (let alone change it!) are nil. but we can start the process towards that if we can find ways of educating (i hate the authority of that word, lol!) by raising awareness of the facts and destroying the myths. it was done sort of successfully with aids and with global warming to a lesser degree, it can be done with this but those with the means aren't interested. does this mean that somehow we have to get the ball rolling? like a lot of people in recovery, i found that once i was aware of the exact nature of the psychic/emotional wound that is inflicted on us when we are abused, it's effects in later life and the impact that it has on the world around us, or as i like to call it, 'our dysfunction footprint', life stopped being confusing. it didn't get any easier, it got harder in fact, but it wasn't confusing any more. this should happen on a global scale not just for individuals. it may be impossible to achieve but i'm in no doubt that it needs to happen and until such time all we are doing is plate-spinning. thanks for being patient and letting me go on a bit, andrew.
§tèvë Jul 19th, 2007 - 6:15 PM	OOPS! Hi Andrew Asuumptions go a long way! Sorry mate, I thought by it wasnt, but hey! Good to know that you're still fighing back mate. Mike Lew, Ellen and Laura? All three are known to me and I'm more than lucky to have the honour of counting Mike as a good friend and ally of mine, for more years than I care to mention. Make sure you catch me eye and speak when at the March/Rally mate, as it would be good to see you and have a real chat, as it would be good to have a chat mate Stay safe §tèvë
andrew Jul 22nd, 2007 - 7:41 PM	Re: what do they know? will do, nice one, see ya there. drew.