martin

Jun 3, 07 - 9:51 AM

Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

I just watched this film, recorded it ages ago. It really resonated with me, especially given some of the stuff I was talking with Steve about yesterday.

The biggest issue it raised for me was prosecuting the vermin who violate us. In my case wanting to prosecute my father. Funny I wont name and shame at present, just in case I ever go to court!

The problem I have is that my Mum who no longer lives with him, is racked with guilt, this prohibits me from going to the police, as I feel it would destroy her. However, I feel that this swine is beinbg left unpunished for a heinous crime he committed against me and my brother, starting when I was just 9! I am raging at present, inside. It is justifiable, I now realise I need to prosecute, but have to deal with the Mother situation first.

I don't want people telling me how wonderful the weather is, and asking me how am I. This is gritty stuff on a serious website, guys, I want serious, educated and responsible advice.

Dave

Jun 3rd, 2007 - 11:34 AM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Hey, Martin...

I remember watching, 'Boys of St. Vincent's' when it first came out. I remember how difficult it was for me to watch Kevin on the witness stand. (it was Kevin wasn't it?)

Last year at this time I was with my brother that was dying from bone cancer. I went to be with him as he died. I stayed for nearly three and a half months. We shared a bedroom growing up. One of the coolest things he said during that process was that..."I do not have anything to give you back. You may tell anyone you feel like, that I am a survivor, too."

It was the first time we talked about it. The first time he brought it up. He was the, two fifths of Canadian Club a day, kind of survivor. All together four of my siblings have died along the way...mostly from some form of substance abuse or another. In my mind it was the secrets that killed them...a very long time ago. It just took them twenty years to fall down.

During the process of being with him I went to the hospital every day. Once a week I took my mother with me. She saw him once a week. Being a father myself I did not really understand that...but I wanted to honor her decision. So it went on like that for quite a while...then one day she got really angry at me because I was not spending enough time, she thought, with her. All of my time was spent with my brother. She actually screamed at me, "What about me!"

That day our relationship changed and I have not seen her since. This process changed for me that day, too. It became more about me and what I wanted and needed.

My mother may have been wracked with guilt but she hid it well...like most everything else. Support most often came in the form of, "I am glad you worked through that and are not so angry anymore." She was the first person in my family that I disclosed to. Her first words were, "At least it was just once." Even though at that time I had not told her it was just once. I simply replied by saying, "No, Mom. It wasn't just once."

When I asked her why she thought my father had done what he did...she responded by saying it was because, "I gave the best hugs." And that he did it to get back at her. When I first told her...she said a week or so later, "It all makes sense now." But would never say why or how it all makes sense now.

I would not presume to offer advice...it is your life, your choices...I know how difficult they are. And I can rationalize that it was difficult for my mother to see, perhaps...that her sons were being raped. I can let that go, maybe. But she knows now...and it is still only about her. That would be what I can not find forgiveness for. Up until last year...her denial was more important than what I needed.

It seems to me...feels like to me...that she did not protect me then...and refuses to protect me even still. If only by being supportive.

What do you want to do, Martin?

Dave

martin

Jun 3rd, 2007 - 9:15 PM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Well Dave, what can I say? Very similar siyuation, although I haven't fortunately lost any of my siblings. Sorry for your loss, BTW, my thoughts are with you. Thank you too, for sharing

Since speaking with the dude, Steve, yesterday. It is very clear in my head that it is my mother that is the barrier to me nailing the bastard.

Why do I want to nail this person? Hypocracy springs to mind, the shit this vermin came out with when we were growing up and doing the exact opposite!

Recompense, and justice, this has beejn a very clear thread running through my recovery. This bastard is galavanting with his new floosy, whilst my mum is working in a part time shop, struggling to make ends meet. And recompense to me. This fucker has taken the best parts of my life, which can never be compensated in monetary terms. Probably not even in custodial terms!

My personal development is being impeded, I carry a lot of anger, which is misdirected onto other people. This is not good, healthy, or even polite!

So there it is a very clear and true case to go take criminal proceedings against a man who was my father....Still has anyone seen 24, Christ' Jack Bauyers dad is a right so and so!

I am inches away from going to the cops.

§tèvë

Jun 3rd, 2007 - 9:21 PM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Hi

The Boys of St Martins was a hell of a film and i remember watching it man years ago, and wanted to kill the bastard who acted that part!

Brought lots of guys forward too, so good i guess, to show it, but also disturbing too

As for doing what you need to Martin?

I'll support you in whatever you decide mate, and be there/here for you, either here or in person fella

Stay safe and stay calm

Steve

Dave

Jun 4th, 2007 - 1:09 AM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Hey, Martin,

Thank you...

I have to say...I agree with Steve. The single thing that has made the most difference in my life...has been knowing that there is at least one person that I can truly count on. It has been a seed from which everything has grown.

Sounds like you got that.

Dave

Martin

Jun 4th, 2007 - 5:41 PM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Cheers Guys, Steve and Dave

I have received a lot of support from this site over the last few days, and from steve in person. It is extremely easy to isolate, and dwell over the problems in your head without moving on. Over the last few days I feel I have moved forward.... Cheers to you and me!

Dave

Jun 5th, 2007 - 4:36 AM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Hey, Martin...

Yea, I agree...it was always too easy for me to isolate...and it is still very hard for me to ask for what I need. I am seriously trying to work on that...

Coming back around to the Boys of St. Vincent's movie...I remember identifying with that about the movie. The way Kevin isolated...and how much courage it took...or, I felt like it took...to step out away from that.

Dave

Ken

Jun 12th, 2007 - 8:56 PM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

15 years, wow, I knew it was a long time ago but not that long. It was 2 parts if I remember rightly, and the second part featured the Kevin and the kids as adults, and his girlfriend reeling off the symptoms of abuse like a shopping list?

It stands out in the mind for having the most delicately acted but still shocking scenes of abuse I'd ever seen on TV, a small-screen companion piece to The Prince of Tides and Mysterious Skin flashback scenes. Henry Czerny who played brother Lavin was all the more menacing for being ordinary, much like the paedophile strand of the film Happiness. The courtroom scenes of part two were heart-rending to watch and whilst it ends with Lavin's loss of his new family, I think he wasn't convicted? You'll have to remind me martin, it was based on a number of similar real life cases in Canada iirc. I guess for me to remember the bulk of it (was it 3 or 4 hours?) it was another drama on the road to unlocking my mind about my own past.

On your mother: if people choose to let themselves get hurt as a result of whatever you do, you have no control over that. You might want to protect your Mum but if you know you want to have your father done for abusing you, then do so.

Aside from us, your brother's the only other person you need discuss your future legal moves with and if you can't agree, the cold truth is siblings will cope in different ways and you need to do what's best for you. Mine did, and they're further along with their life than I am because of it.

Your Mum will need her own counselling probably, and now she's separated from him, her guilt? We've all got it, only the perpetrators seem to be free from it, so we've all got to unload it to start moving on. We can't tell you to prosecute your Dad or not, but I hope I've made it clear to you that if that's what you decide on, you've got to put yourself first unless you are dependent on your Mum in any way. You don't need hers or your brother's blessing even if you love them both.

martin

Jun 13th, 2007 - 8:38 AM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

Thanks Ken.

Yeah you are righ in what you say. I am not dependent on my mother, she is emotionally dependent on her 4 children. It is as though I am talking to a little girl sometimes, she really behaves like that when she plays the victim role. When I reflect, she has played this role extremely well, for years, the result I think, is to get her own way! LOL!

In terms of my father, the urge to prosecute has subsided for now, but this happens to me i get all fired up, then my feelings of legal proceedings subside a little, although they are still there. Like I have said earlier, if it weren't for my mum, the bastard would be banged to rights by now, but unfortunately, i don't think i will heal any faster by this course of action. which i guess is the result i want.

Can I say how made up how busy this site is becoming? Well done men!

Dave

Jun 13th, 2007 - 10:55 AM

Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later

hey, guys...

Yea, boy! To the sibs will react or handle things in their own way.

Seems like the roles children play out in so called "normal" families are difficult enough...but in families where these issues are present the roles and job descriptions are carved in stone as we go along. Not allowing for a whole lot of flexibility.

Somebody somewhere used the model of a mobile...you know...one of those hanging pieces of art. You touch it anywhere and the whole thing moves. In a family like mine...everybody was always trying to keep it from moving rather than just allowing it to move as it will.

Seems like our families have the greatest potential for support having grown up with them....but also it is the most difficult to get or receive support from them because of course the dynamic that allows the abuse has been there for them too regardless of whether their experiences separately include abuse.

It wasn't until my older brother was literally dying that he asked me and we discussed the issues of abuse. When he threw it out there he was shocked that I answered him frankly and honestly.

He said, "Do you remember..." And I said, "Yes I do..." And finished the particular story he was recalling for him with more detail than he remembered. He just laid there looking so surprised, validated.

Dave

Author	Comment
martin Jun 3, 07 - 9:51 AM	Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later I just watched this film, recorded it ages ago. It really resonated with me, especially given some of the stuff I was talking with Steve about yesterday. The biggest issue it raised for me was prosecuting the vermin who violate us. In my case wanting to prosecute my father. Funny I wont name and shame at present, just in case I ever go to court! The problem I have is that my Mum who no longer lives with him, is racked with guilt, this prohibits me from going to the police, as I feel it would destroy her. However, I feel that this swine is beinbg left unpunished for a heinous crime he committed against me and my brother, starting when I was just 9! I am raging at present, inside. It is justifiable, I now realise I need to prosecute, but have to deal with the Mother situation first. I don't want people telling me how wonderful the weather is, and asking me how am I. This is gritty stuff on a serious website, guys, I want serious, educated and responsible advice.
Dave Jun 3rd, 2007 - 11:34 AM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Hey, Martin... I remember watching, 'Boys of St. Vincent's' when it first came out. I remember how difficult it was for me to watch Kevin on the witness stand. (it was Kevin wasn't it?) Last year at this time I was with my brother that was dying from bone cancer. I went to be with him as he died. I stayed for nearly three and a half months. We shared a bedroom growing up. One of the coolest things he said during that process was that..."I do not have anything to give you back. You may tell anyone you feel like, that I am a survivor, too." It was the first time we talked about it. The first time he brought it up. He was the, two fifths of Canadian Club a day, kind of survivor. All together four of my siblings have died along the way...mostly from some form of substance abuse or another. In my mind it was the secrets that killed them...a very long time ago. It just took them twenty years to fall down. During the process of being with him I went to the hospital every day. Once a week I took my mother with me. She saw him once a week. Being a father myself I did not really understand that...but I wanted to honor her decision. So it went on like that for quite a while...then one day she got really angry at me because I was not spending enough time, she thought, with her. All of my time was spent with my brother. She actually screamed at me, "What about me!" That day our relationship changed and I have not seen her since. This process changed for me that day, too. It became more about me and what I wanted and needed. My mother may have been wracked with guilt but she hid it well...like most everything else. Support most often came in the form of, "I am glad you worked through that and are not so angry anymore." She was the first person in my family that I disclosed to. Her first words were, "At least it was just once." Even though at that time I had not told her it was just once. I simply replied by saying, "No, Mom. It wasn't just once." When I asked her why she thought my father had done what he did...she responded by saying it was because, "I gave the best hugs." And that he did it to get back at her. When I first told her...she said a week or so later, "It all makes sense now." But would never say why or how it all makes sense now. I would not presume to offer advice...it is your life, your choices...I know how difficult they are. And I can rationalize that it was difficult for my mother to see, perhaps...that her sons were being raped. I can let that go, maybe. But she knows now...and it is still only about her. That would be what I can not find forgiveness for. Up until last year...her denial was more important than what I needed. It seems to me...feels like to me...that she did not protect me then...and refuses to protect me even still. If only by being supportive. What do you want to do, Martin? Dave
martin Jun 3rd, 2007 - 9:15 PM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Well Dave, what can I say? Very similar siyuation, although I haven't fortunately lost any of my siblings. Sorry for your loss, BTW, my thoughts are with you. Thank you too, for sharing Since speaking with the dude, Steve, yesterday. It is very clear in my head that it is my mother that is the barrier to me nailing the bastard. Why do I want to nail this person? Hypocracy springs to mind, the shit this vermin came out with when we were growing up and doing the exact opposite! Recompense, and justice, this has beejn a very clear thread running through my recovery. This bastard is galavanting with his new floosy, whilst my mum is working in a part time shop, struggling to make ends meet. And recompense to me. This fucker has taken the best parts of my life, which can never be compensated in monetary terms. Probably not even in custodial terms! My personal development is being impeded, I carry a lot of anger, which is misdirected onto other people. This is not good, healthy, or even polite! So there it is a very clear and true case to go take criminal proceedings against a man who was my father....Still has anyone seen 24, Christ' Jack Bauyers dad is a right so and so! I am inches away from going to the cops.
§tèvë Jun 3rd, 2007 - 9:21 PM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Hi The Boys of St Martins was a hell of a film and i remember watching it man years ago, and wanted to kill the bastard who acted that part! Brought lots of guys forward too, so good i guess, to show it, but also disturbing too As for doing what you need to Martin? I'll support you in whatever you decide mate, and be there/here for you, either here or in person fella Stay safe and stay calm Steve
Dave Jun 4th, 2007 - 1:09 AM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Hey, Martin, Thank you... I have to say...I agree with Steve. The single thing that has made the most difference in my life...has been knowing that there is at least one person that I can truly count on. It has been a seed from which everything has grown. Sounds like you got that. Dave
Martin Jun 4th, 2007 - 5:41 PM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Cheers Guys, Steve and Dave I have received a lot of support from this site over the last few days, and from steve in person. It is extremely easy to isolate, and dwell over the problems in your head without moving on. Over the last few days I feel I have moved forward.... Cheers to you and me!
Dave Jun 5th, 2007 - 4:36 AM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Hey, Martin... Yea, I agree...it was always too easy for me to isolate...and it is still very hard for me to ask for what I need. I am seriously trying to work on that... Coming back around to the Boys of St. Vincent's movie...I remember identifying with that about the movie. The way Kevin isolated...and how much courage it took...or, I felt like it took...to step out away from that. Dave
Ken Jun 12th, 2007 - 8:56 PM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later 15 years, wow, I knew it was a long time ago but not that long. It was 2 parts if I remember rightly, and the second part featured the Kevin and the kids as adults, and his girlfriend reeling off the symptoms of abuse like a shopping list? It stands out in the mind for having the most delicately acted but still shocking scenes of abuse I'd ever seen on TV, a small-screen companion piece to The Prince of Tides and Mysterious Skin flashback scenes. Henry Czerny who played brother Lavin was all the more menacing for being ordinary, much like the paedophile strand of the film Happiness. The courtroom scenes of part two were heart-rending to watch and whilst it ends with Lavin's loss of his new family, I think he wasn't convicted? You'll have to remind me martin, it was based on a number of similar real life cases in Canada iirc. I guess for me to remember the bulk of it (was it 3 or 4 hours?) it was another drama on the road to unlocking my mind about my own past. On your mother: if people choose to let themselves get hurt as a result of whatever you do, you have no control over that. You might want to protect your Mum but if you know you want to have your father done for abusing you, then do so. Aside from us, your brother's the only other person you need discuss your future legal moves with and if you can't agree, the cold truth is siblings will cope in different ways and you need to do what's best for you. Mine did, and they're further along with their life than I am because of it. Your Mum will need her own counselling probably, and now she's separated from him, her guilt? We've all got it, only the perpetrators seem to be free from it, so we've all got to unload it to start moving on. We can't tell you to prosecute your Dad or not, but I hope I've made it clear to you that if that's what you decide on, you've got to put yourself first unless you are dependent on your Mum in any way. You don't need hers or your brother's blessing even if you love them both.
martin Jun 13th, 2007 - 8:38 AM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later Thanks Ken. Yeah you are righ in what you say. I am not dependent on my mother, she is emotionally dependent on her 4 children. It is as though I am talking to a little girl sometimes, she really behaves like that when she plays the victim role. When I reflect, she has played this role extremely well, for years, the result I think, is to get her own way! LOL! In terms of my father, the urge to prosecute has subsided for now, but this happens to me i get all fired up, then my feelings of legal proceedings subside a little, although they are still there. Like I have said earlier, if it weren't for my mum, the bastard would be banged to rights by now, but unfortunately, i don't think i will heal any faster by this course of action. which i guess is the result i want. Can I say how made up how busy this site is becoming? Well done men!
Dave Jun 13th, 2007 - 10:55 AM	Re: Boys of St Vincent.....15 years later hey, guys... Yea, boy! To the sibs will react or handle things in their own way. Seems like the roles children play out in so called "normal" families are difficult enough...but in families where these issues are present the roles and job descriptions are carved in stone as we go along. Not allowing for a whole lot of flexibility. Somebody somewhere used the model of a mobile...you know...one of those hanging pieces of art. You touch it anywhere and the whole thing moves. In a family like mine...everybody was always trying to keep it from moving rather than just allowing it to move as it will. Seems like our families have the greatest potential for support having grown up with them....but also it is the most difficult to get or receive support from them because of course the dynamic that allows the abuse has been there for them too regardless of whether their experiences separately include abuse. It wasn't until my older brother was literally dying that he asked me and we discussed the issues of abuse. When he threw it out there he was shocked that I answered him frankly and honestly. He said, "Do you remember..." And I said, "Yes I do..." And finished the particular story he was recalling for him with more detail than he remembered. He just laid there looking so surprised, validated. Dave